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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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yes it's the skeptic Zone episode number

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158 already 158 for the 29th of October

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2011 Richard Saunders here with you from

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downtown New Orleans Louisiana I'm at

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the committee for skeptical inquiry

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convention psych on this icon is what

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they're calling it I'm in the book room

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which is strangely empty at the moment

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because everyone else is upstairs

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listening to a panel on conspiracy

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theories I think it's a conspiracy that

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I'm not there I'm actually here to tell

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you about this week's episode of the

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skeptic zone now we're going to go back

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in time a week we're going to go back to

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Melbourne where our reporters may not of

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course in particular was at skeptic camp

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may not lined up a lot of people to talk

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to down there he kicks off with Lucas

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Randall who was one of the people behind

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skeptic camp and talks to Peter Miller

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about shoe tag the questionable device

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for your pets to keep those fleas and

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ticks away catches up with Peter

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bowditch ratbag the famous red bag for a

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take on what he was talking about and

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tech I sure that Peter would love to be

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here in New Orleans he asked me to have

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a bourbon for him I better do that

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following that we have a Jason Brown the

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famous Sydney skeptic and then the

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feature interview may nod talks to our

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reporter joanne been amoo about bottoms

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oh yes colonic irrigation animas all

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that sort of stuff and in fact if you

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hit pause now you can spend the rest of

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the five minutes tech they're telling

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bum jokes got that thank you that's very

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good saves me from doing it and then to

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wrap up the show we go back to Sydney

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where dr. rachey went to the annual

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shonky awards by choice magazine now you

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might remember that last year power

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balance wristband 1a shonky a warden was

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part of the process that led to their

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downfall this year read she goes along

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to the shonky Awards the press launch

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had a great time and spoke to choice

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magazines Chris

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about some of the winners who were all

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losers at this year's xiong keys now

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later on in this episode of the skeptics

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are not try to catch up quickly with few

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of the people are attending this

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wonderful convention here I've never

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been to New Orleans before haven't had a

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much of a chance to get get out and

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about but it looks really nice lots of

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tourists lots of people running about

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but for now I'm going to run upstairs

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I'm going to enjoy the rest of the

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conspiracies talk while you enjoy the

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here's my not spooky action at the

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distance

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I tell you turn the corner everywhere

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and there's people to chat to here and

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I'm talking to Lucas because he's got a

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big Lucas stamp on his chest there and I

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saw you setting up the Wi-Fi really hurt

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skip to camp and what's been your role

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at skipped account Melbourne I'm the

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main organizer escaped camp so myself

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and Chris Higgins have put together most

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of the event couple other helpers so

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what is this just some drunken idea that

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turned up at the pub on a Friday night

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well what made you think to put it on we

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were coerced at skip the camp Sydney I

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think Jason Brown did such a great job

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up there without with that event Dave

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the happy senior and so forth so we went

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up there we saw that and we thought it

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was fantastic idea so thought we'd

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replicated in melbourne now have what

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are the basic differences i mean people

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go on about the difference between

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sydney and melbourne and since I'm not

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from either town I can look at both them

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and get over it but what are the

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differences soon skeptic appt melbourne

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and sydney in the ideas is there any

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other ideas i don't think so i've heard

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overheard some of the conversations have

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been occurring after the talks here and

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they're very similar in both towns and

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having lived in both towns for a long

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you know long part of my adult life I

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can probably you know comment quite well

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on it I lived in Sydney for 10 years and

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I've been down here for it's about 10

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years so yeah I think the the you know

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the ideas are very similar but the the

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groups come together a lot more in

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Sydney I don't know whether it's a

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geographical thing or just a social

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thing but but there's a lot more

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cohesion up there and I've certainly

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found that putting this talk together

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that it's been hard to engage with a lot

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of a lot of the group so that's

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hopefully something that this sort of

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event will will start to improve is that

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just because they're different social

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leaders or is there schisms in the

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belief in the skeptical groups here in

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Melbourne I don't think so much the

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belief that it's it's very similar in

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terms of the desired outcomes and the

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issues that they want to address it's

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more I don't know maybe it's just the

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people are very busy that I you know

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that they're not really used to engaging

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there are a few separate groups down

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here and we're trying to build some

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relationships between them hopefully

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we'll get there I think think it'll be

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an ongoing thing and what's your

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personal whoo I'm asking everyone what's

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there were that gets their dander up you

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know you know that what's the word that

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makes you be turned into the man who's

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day as it goes well for me it's the

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environment that's probably the thing

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that brought me into skipped skepticism

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in the first place there is so much

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anti-science being pushed out to the

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general public on climate science and

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there's a lot of distrust of you know

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people have spent their life in the

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field and studying and and its really

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overturned the the public trust in

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science and the scientific

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process so that's my personal one of

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this one that I tend to engage with

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people the most my other many one is

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wooing business because there is so much

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blue involved in in training of people

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and getting across ideas within business

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and making decisions about leadership

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and it's something really really bothers

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me and that's Brian Dunning who I know

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you know top guy he has the best spa and

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in the state The Skeptical spot yeah

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Brian's actually done a podcast on the

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myers-briggs personality test and this

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is something that actually took on head

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on with my employer to limited success

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but i think the points I made were very

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relevant because they were you know

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really prepared to make decisions about

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people's future based on the outcomes of

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these tests I had a big issue with that

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no and is that the main woo you see cuz

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also in in there's a lot of mate ship

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and you know and little boys club

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involved in many businesses because

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there's also power of the problem I

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don't think that's a problem in terms of

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whoo because really the end of the day

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any human endeavor is about

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relationships so it really is about

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engaging with people but you know I I

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have a lot of issue with with things

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being presented as this is a scientific

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sort of method you know this is a

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mathematical certainty that if we do

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these things blah blah blah when it's

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based on on rubbish and you mentioned

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the myers-briggs as being because that

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that's a won a one-off test and you get

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a result that's a one-off result and

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fenoli profile yeah and then you like

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putting that forward yeah and look just

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basically explained that breaks people's

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down into different types that's right i

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have about 12 times less I wasn't there

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yeah and it's like a spectrum basically

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so you can fit anywhere within the

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spectrum and you have on you know one

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side you've you've basically got your

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introverts and other side you've got

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your extrovert and there's different

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levels that you can be and you need some

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areas you can be extroverted some areas

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you can be introverted so it does cross

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over and what it does is it builds up

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this personality profile but what it

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forces people into boxes now the point

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that I made during the training we were

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receiving in the sessions that we went

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through a word was I have a very

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different persona at work than what I

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have my private life I have a different

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persona at home than what i have in my

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work life and events like this i put on

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another persona and you wear personas

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according to what the desired outcome is

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now if i'm being put into a pigeon hole

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at work and then future managers and

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current

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making decisions as to where to put me

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in my career and how to use me based on

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those outcomes they change they evolve

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so that was one of the things that I

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took up with the trainer was you know

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this is all well and good in this shows

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my personality profile now but I will

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change over time and I don't even agree

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with what's here anyway because let's

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face it I'm going to answer these

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questions how how I think my boss is is

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going to want to hear and that affects

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the outcome well isn't this just a case

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of business users that because it's a

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very easy tool and it's easy to

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understand where in fact the real

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results very complicated and most people

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couldn't understand it that's certainly

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true but I think that if you look at the

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personality profiles in for example

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under myers-briggs it's very similar to

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astronomy astrology you look at the

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astrology personality profiles and every

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single person will identify with some

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part of every single profile and myers

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briggs is exactly the same they could

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really give you any profile and you'll

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read it through and go oh yeah you know

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I respond well to change but yes I do

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get a little bit upset sometimes it's

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all very general and vague and what

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would be the downside of using it like

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that does that mean that person's

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pigeonhole people will genuinely think

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all that person is good for that and

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they won't consider other things is that

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does that really happen that absolutely

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happens and that's the issue that I have

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with it because some peas things are

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pushed particularly by business

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management schools and third-party

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external sort of courses that come in to

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say we're experts in people management

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and they'll come and say to managers

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okay to be a good leader you need to

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understand your staff and once you've

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understood your staff you can apply it

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you can push them in particular

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directions and using particular ways so

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there were guys that were in my team who

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for example a programmers who tend to be

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fairly fairly quiet and that they're not

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overly engaging but I have seen these

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people in the right environment pitching

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to people in a sales role and they're

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fantastic because they put on that hat

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for the role so you can't simply say

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well this person is reserved and quiet

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therefore I'll keep him away from a

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cusser facing wrong but you could call

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00:09:43,510 --> 00:09:41,600
it a management tool but you could also

273
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:43,520
call it lazy management as well because

274
00:09:46,510 --> 00:09:45,050
you've got these pigeon holes that means

275
00:09:47,950 --> 00:09:46,520
there's a lot less work a manager has to

276
00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:47,960
do to motivate someone ought to move

277
00:09:51,610 --> 00:09:49,310
them into a different so-called box

278
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:51,620
that's very true and in my view having

279
00:09:55,870 --> 00:09:53,090
no I was in the Army I went through the

280
00:09:57,760 --> 00:09:55,880
army officer training and you know I

281
00:09:58,840 --> 00:09:57,770
think army officer training is very very

282
00:10:00,700 --> 00:09:58,850
different from anything else that's

283
00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:00,710
that's in the the private sector because

284
00:10:03,610 --> 00:10:02,090
it's not about managing people it's

285
00:10:05,230 --> 00:10:03,620
about leading them and that's something

286
00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:05,240
I think is really sorely lacking in a

287
00:10:07,750 --> 00:10:06,050
lot of lot of

288
00:10:09,340 --> 00:10:07,760
measurement in Australia and something

289
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:09,350
I've seen some you know fantastic things

290
00:10:12,970 --> 00:10:11,810
overseas but you know hopefully that's

291
00:10:15,190 --> 00:10:12,980
something that will change over time is

292
00:10:16,630 --> 00:10:15,200
it's not about managing your people

293
00:10:19,930 --> 00:10:16,640
they're not computers they're not

294
00:10:22,420 --> 00:10:19,940
machines they are people well I what

295
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:22,430
I've noticed in some management is that

296
00:10:25,990 --> 00:10:23,810
the last thing I want to do is actually

297
00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:26,000
manage they want to sort of get on with

298
00:10:30,519 --> 00:10:27,910
whatever the job is defined as and also

299
00:10:31,810 --> 00:10:30,529
refer up to the people above them and

300
00:10:33,579 --> 00:10:31,820
make the people above them see what

301
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:33,589
they're doing they're not so interested

302
00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:35,120
in micro management and do you think

303
00:10:39,490 --> 00:10:37,130
this is something avoids people having

304
00:10:41,079 --> 00:10:39,500
to do micromanagement I think different

305
00:10:42,730 --> 00:10:41,089
managers have different styles and that

306
00:10:44,139 --> 00:10:42,740
was something that was potrait was quite

307
00:10:46,569 --> 00:10:44,149
clearly in the army that you know you

308
00:10:48,370 --> 00:10:46,579
will have a natural style that you you

309
00:10:49,690 --> 00:10:48,380
will sort of lean towards and there's

310
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:49,700
nothing at all wrong to that you should

311
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:51,920
play to your strengths but with any any

312
00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:54,010
management role you've got three

313
00:10:57,639 --> 00:10:55,670
responsible if you have a responsibility

314
00:11:00,100 --> 00:10:57,649
to your employee right so your employer

315
00:11:01,540 --> 00:11:00,110
that your supervisors who are the one

316
00:11:03,340 --> 00:11:01,550
setting the agenda you've got a

317
00:11:04,449 --> 00:11:03,350
responsibility to your subordinates so

318
00:11:05,829 --> 00:11:04,459
the people that report to you you're

319
00:11:06,819 --> 00:11:05,839
responsible for their career development

320
00:11:08,889 --> 00:11:06,829
you're responsible for their day-to-day

321
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:08,899
well-being your responsibly hearing

322
00:11:12,010 --> 00:11:10,370
their issues in that so forth you're

323
00:11:14,079 --> 00:11:12,020
also responsible for the task whatever

324
00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:14,089
the task is or the mission so you know

325
00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:15,770
as you are you know been tasked with

326
00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:17,510
with with achieving this outcome and

327
00:11:20,889 --> 00:11:19,250
then it's a matter of balancing those

328
00:11:22,300 --> 00:11:20,899
responsibilities and sometimes you have

329
00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:22,310
to buck the system a little bit and go

330
00:11:25,389 --> 00:11:23,930
against your employer sometimes you're

331
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:25,399
going to go against your staff sometimes

332
00:11:27,670 --> 00:11:26,450
you got to focus on the mission at hand

333
00:11:30,130 --> 00:11:27,680
it really depends on what you're doing

334
00:11:31,810 --> 00:11:30,140
and someone who's had training in the

335
00:11:33,940 --> 00:11:31,820
Australian Army let's go completely off

336
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:33,950
topic here what is your favorite story

337
00:11:38,079 --> 00:11:35,839
of Australian Army leadership if you've

338
00:11:40,180 --> 00:11:38,089
got one an example is there a moment in

339
00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:40,190
a battle aware some leadership decision

340
00:11:44,170 --> 00:11:41,690
was made that sticks in your mind is

341
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:44,180
being wow that's leadership there's

342
00:11:48,939 --> 00:11:45,680
probably too many to be honest with you

343
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:48,949
a lot of the officers a lot of the

344
00:11:51,670 --> 00:11:49,970
leadership training we do in the army

345
00:11:53,260 --> 00:11:51,680
looks beyond just australian army

346
00:11:54,970 --> 00:11:53,270
because we have a very fairly short

347
00:11:56,380 --> 00:11:54,980
history in the austrian army but there

348
00:11:58,530 --> 00:11:56,390
are so many terrific examples from

349
00:12:01,990 --> 00:11:58,540
Gallipoli they're terrific examples from

350
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:02,000
from Africa from the the Pacific region

351
00:12:05,380 --> 00:12:03,440
during World War Two they literally are

352
00:12:07,810 --> 00:12:05,390
too many to name but probably the ones

353
00:12:09,670 --> 00:12:07,820
that stood out for me the most in my

354
00:12:11,889 --> 00:12:09,680
training were actually some of the

355
00:12:13,750 --> 00:12:11,899
leadership of the Germans you look at

356
00:12:15,189 --> 00:12:13,760
Rommel who was considered an incredible

357
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:15,199
leader and what he actually achieved in

358
00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:17,710
Africa with a you know with his tank

359
00:12:22,260 --> 00:12:19,770
you know regiments was just sensational

360
00:12:23,850 --> 00:12:22,270
and looking at simply from a leadership

361
00:12:25,650 --> 00:12:23,860
perspective on what he was able to

362
00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:25,660
achieve on so little and you contrast

363
00:12:28,260 --> 00:12:27,040
that for example with what the Russians

364
00:12:31,500 --> 00:12:28,270
are able to do with their with their

365
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:31,510
armored you know equipment it was a very

366
00:12:34,860 --> 00:12:32,890
very different outcome because of the

367
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:34,870
manner in which they were required to

368
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:36,970
lead very very different structure um

369
00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:38,530
look the only again this is off topic

370
00:12:42,300 --> 00:12:40,090
but I love gone down a rat hole with

371
00:12:43,770 --> 00:12:42,310
this the only limited leadership

372
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:43,780
examples obscene have been from history

373
00:12:46,710 --> 00:12:45,130
channels and of course that's very

374
00:12:48,270 --> 00:12:46,720
Americanized yeah and one of the great

375
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:48,280
leadership decisions i thought was made

376
00:12:51,930 --> 00:12:50,050
was to get off Omaha Beach there was a

377
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:51,940
rather a ton general that was smoking a

378
00:12:55,350 --> 00:12:53,110
cigar that managed to get a whole bunch

379
00:12:57,030 --> 00:12:55,360
of guys to charge a machine gun nest now

380
00:12:58,680 --> 00:12:57,040
how do you get people to do that without

381
00:13:01,020 --> 00:12:58,690
actually getting in front of them and

382
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:01,030
lynn email yeah i mean this is one of

383
00:13:03,930 --> 00:13:01,990
the things with leadership desert

384
00:13:05,490 --> 00:13:03,940
there's a there's a belief that really

385
00:13:07,170 --> 00:13:05,500
came out of the Vietnam era where people

386
00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:07,180
pretty much particular with Australians

387
00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:10,330
skates if you try to manage your

388
00:13:13,620 --> 00:13:12,130
resources instead of leading them you'll

389
00:13:14,910 --> 00:13:13,630
end up with a bullet in your back you

390
00:13:16,650 --> 00:13:14,920
know because it's so easy to do in the

391
00:13:18,660 --> 00:13:16,660
jungle you know the girls an accident

392
00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:18,670
whatever whatever and really that's the

393
00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:20,230
takeaway I think for from military

394
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:21,820
training particularly in Australia where

395
00:13:25,170 --> 00:13:23,530
we do have tend to have people who do

396
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:25,180
question authority naturally it's a part

397
00:13:29,460 --> 00:13:27,010
about our national identity I think to

398
00:13:32,370 --> 00:13:29,470
question authority but yeah I mean if

399
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:32,380
you I I'm just I don't understand that I

400
00:13:35,310 --> 00:13:34,210
don't understand Gallipoli for example

401
00:13:36,630 --> 00:13:35,320
where they were you know they were

402
00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:36,640
charging the guns and they were doing it

403
00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:38,830
wave after wave after wave at the orders

404
00:13:43,140 --> 00:13:41,110
of you know British commanders it is

405
00:13:44,310 --> 00:13:43,150
really it's a it's just kind of magic

406
00:13:46,650 --> 00:13:44,320
meeting up position do you think that's

407
00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:46,660
part of the the training of the time

408
00:13:50,970 --> 00:13:48,220
there was an authority figure we're here

409
00:13:52,410 --> 00:13:50,980
to do this and that was at a time thing

410
00:13:54,690 --> 00:13:52,420
at that time I mean now people just

411
00:13:56,370 --> 00:13:54,700
wouldn't perf you to do it that it could

412
00:13:57,420 --> 00:13:56,380
be i mean it's it's hard to put yourself

413
00:13:59,370 --> 00:13:57,430
in that position unless you've been

414
00:14:01,290 --> 00:13:59,380
there i mean it sounds silly but war

415
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:01,300
changes everything you know and when and

416
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:02,770
when you are in those positions bear in

417
00:14:05,790 --> 00:14:04,210
mind these guys have been entrenched for

418
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:05,800
four months and months and months they

419
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:07,810
had serious health problems that lack of

420
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:10,870
equipment had a lack of food things were

421
00:14:14,460 --> 00:14:12,610
very very desperate and they there was a

422
00:14:15,750 --> 00:14:14,470
desperation they wanted to get out of it

423
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:15,760
they wanted to move on they didn't want

424
00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:17,530
to continue to psalm eight so that would

425
00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:18,670
have played into it to some degree as

426
00:14:23,070 --> 00:14:20,710
well and this is nothing like the

427
00:14:24,810 --> 00:14:23,080
Gallipoli campaign here today but can

428
00:14:27,090 --> 00:14:24,820
you expect a very dangerous rush at

429
00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:27,100
lunchtime possibly we've got plenty of

430
00:14:30,090 --> 00:14:28,690
food thinks the Australian skeptics they

431
00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:30,100
sponsor this and arrival

432
00:14:33,689 --> 00:14:32,050
by the food for the event so I think

433
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:33,699
we'll be fine with food I was a little

434
00:14:37,079 --> 00:14:34,930
bit worried once the numbers were son to

435
00:14:38,939 --> 00:14:37,089
creep up / 150 5 or 10 days as they go

436
00:14:40,530 --> 00:14:38,949
there's if lunch is going to be snacks

437
00:14:42,689 --> 00:14:40,540
and not so much lunch now I was hoping

438
00:14:44,340 --> 00:14:42,699
that someone will be giving a talk would

439
00:14:45,930 --> 00:14:44,350
go batshit crazy and have to be dragged

440
00:14:47,879 --> 00:14:45,940
out now will that be happening there's

441
00:14:53,699 --> 00:14:47,889
still time there's still some oh no it

442
00:14:55,079 --> 00:14:53,709
may happen cool well I'm wandering round

443
00:14:56,460 --> 00:14:55,089
here at skeptic camp and it's great

444
00:14:57,930 --> 00:14:56,470
people coming up to me and just saying

445
00:14:59,519 --> 00:14:57,940
hello and i've got i've been asking

446
00:15:01,410 --> 00:14:59,529
people what their personal woo is it's a

447
00:15:03,629 --> 00:15:01,420
great thing to ask anyone these kind of

448
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:03,639
things but I'm just too we have Peter

449
00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:04,930
Miller hi Peter that's what your name

450
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:06,610
tag that's what you claim to be tonight

451
00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:09,130
who I'm claiming to be now you've had a

452
00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:10,600
bit of a personal crusade against

453
00:15:14,460 --> 00:15:12,190
something that hasn't to do anything

454
00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:14,470
with people it's to do with pets yes

455
00:15:18,210 --> 00:15:15,970
this is a this is a little kind of

456
00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:18,220
gadget called shoe tag it's a credit

457
00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:21,880
card sized being looks like a credit

458
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:23,860
card like a credit cards members is

459
00:15:28,139 --> 00:15:26,560
available it's it's started being

460
00:15:30,509 --> 00:15:28,149
marketed about two or three years ago

461
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,519
it's still currently available in fact

462
00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:33,279
it's doing very well it's being sold out

463
00:15:37,410 --> 00:15:36,130
of America it's out of Texas and what is

464
00:15:40,410 --> 00:15:37,420
it doing is a how's that supposed to

465
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:40,420
work what it actually does is it's you

466
00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:42,970
hang it around your pets neck dog or cat

467
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:47,130
dog or a cat or horse and it will using

468
00:15:53,610 --> 00:15:50,649
data encoded on a magnetic strip on the

469
00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:53,620
back of the card it will repel fleas and

470
00:15:59,040 --> 00:15:56,500
ticks and other pests so the magnetic

471
00:16:01,949 --> 00:15:59,050
field is supposed to repel these pests

472
00:16:04,079 --> 00:16:01,959
well that's a good question yes perhaps

473
00:16:06,780 --> 00:16:04,089
that's what's happening according to the

474
00:16:09,879 --> 00:16:06,790
manufacturer's what actually happens is

475
00:16:14,019 --> 00:16:09,889
that the data that's encoded on the card

476
00:16:16,329 --> 00:16:14,029
somehow creates an effect inside the

477
00:16:18,460 --> 00:16:16,339
pets already existing energy field

478
00:16:20,889 --> 00:16:18,470
already we're moving into the power band

479
00:16:22,179 --> 00:16:20,899
hologram area here totally like that you

480
00:16:23,530 --> 00:16:22,189
would think that somebody marketing

481
00:16:27,729 --> 00:16:23,540
something like that would have some

482
00:16:29,979 --> 00:16:27,739
science well they don't ah so and so

483
00:16:32,169 --> 00:16:29,989
you've had a bit of a action against us

484
00:16:34,749 --> 00:16:32,179
have you written to them up do we have a

485
00:16:36,249 --> 00:16:34,759
board of abstained ins for pets things

486
00:16:37,509 --> 00:16:36,259
like that it's very interesting it's

487
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,519
actually quite complicated they are

488
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:39,199
selling this pet tag in Australian art

489
00:16:42,669 --> 00:16:41,600
course and what they've started which

490
00:16:44,349 --> 00:16:42,679
has become rather a little bit more

491
00:16:46,059 --> 00:16:44,359
concerning as they're making a people

492
00:16:47,559 --> 00:16:46,069
version and they've been shipping it to

493
00:16:50,229 --> 00:16:47,569
what they claim to have been shipping it

494
00:16:53,499 --> 00:16:50,239
to Africa to help with our problems of

495
00:16:54,999 --> 00:16:53,509
mosquitoes of malaria okay you can see

496
00:16:56,650 --> 00:16:55,009
that that's going to be yes well that's

497
00:16:59,259 --> 00:16:56,660
where you gettin into the devil what's

498
00:17:01,659 --> 00:16:59,269
the harm area that's a problem now and

499
00:17:04,689 --> 00:17:01,669
so we know I started I basically found

500
00:17:08,259 --> 00:17:04,699
this thing a couple years gone I did a

501
00:17:09,730 --> 00:17:08,269
very silly challenge on it and over the

502
00:17:12,370 --> 00:17:09,740
years it's developed into something of a

503
00:17:14,769 --> 00:17:12,380
saga on my blog so wow there's a lot of

504
00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:14,779
information available well look let's

505
00:17:17,620 --> 00:17:16,130
tell people where your blog is so they

506
00:17:19,870 --> 00:17:17,630
can go and read about just because it

507
00:17:20,829 --> 00:17:19,880
does sound like a very unlikely thing

508
00:17:22,569 --> 00:17:20,839
and something would go under the radar

509
00:17:24,189 --> 00:17:22,579
because unless people were very

510
00:17:25,419 --> 00:17:24,199
concerned about their pets being tricked

511
00:17:27,340 --> 00:17:25,429
by whew this is not something people

512
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,350
might not look into because so what if

513
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:29,120
your dog gets a few more fleas unusual

514
00:17:33,070 --> 00:17:31,130
year now and also it's promoted as being

515
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:33,080
you know an alternative to chemical

516
00:17:37,710 --> 00:17:35,690
controls and you know it they mainly

517
00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:37,720
around the words green a lot

518
00:17:42,419 --> 00:17:40,990
yeah it's sold as something that will be

519
00:17:44,730 --> 00:17:42,429
good for your pets are not harm them but

520
00:17:49,049 --> 00:17:44,740
of course it does absolutely nothing and

521
00:17:50,610 --> 00:17:49,059
so your pets are open to disease and and

522
00:18:00,090 --> 00:17:50,620
what's the address of your blog how can

523
00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:00,100
we find it some www.koco.com is spelling

524
00:18:03,810 --> 00:18:01,990
and there's a reason for it and zoo a

525
00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:03,820
way to Google you the find it easily as

526
00:18:10,890 --> 00:18:06,580
well yeah you could just google to the

527
00:18:14,039 --> 00:18:10,900
cowl for google Reverend anaglyph and

528
00:18:16,799 --> 00:18:14,049
you'll find me okay or Google shootout

529
00:18:18,990 --> 00:18:16,809
well I'm the biggest critic available

530
00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:19,000
yeah so so if you like next time in a

531
00:18:22,860 --> 00:18:20,980
pet shop remit I mean humans aren't the

532
00:18:24,570 --> 00:18:22,870
only ones susceptible to woo cuz we put

533
00:18:26,610 --> 00:18:24,580
stuff on our pets and they're in a lot

534
00:18:28,950 --> 00:18:26,620
of Australian pet shops now right on the

535
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:28,960
front of the counter credit card little

536
00:18:32,039 --> 00:18:30,730
milk kind of container and it sort of

537
00:18:33,930 --> 00:18:32,049
says you know this is really good

538
00:18:35,430 --> 00:18:33,940
because it won't harm your pet they

539
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:35,440
won't home your pet they won't do

540
00:18:39,750 --> 00:18:37,570
anything is there anyone who has

541
00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:39,760
actually done some a bee studies on it

542
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:41,650
there are a few people throughout the

543
00:18:45,470 --> 00:18:43,690
world who've actually trialed it but

544
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:45,480
there have been to my knowledge no

545
00:18:50,890 --> 00:18:48,730
proper scientific studies done on it

546
00:18:54,620 --> 00:18:53,330
really he's just come off stage and then

547
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:54,630
what was the topic of your talk today

548
00:18:58,460 --> 00:18:56,910
Peter it was big bear dick had to be

549
00:19:00,140 --> 00:18:58,470
impolite the people on that will just

550
00:19:01,549 --> 00:19:00,150
suit us to stand up if so and get don't

551
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:01,559
get the reverb off the wall there we're

552
00:19:04,250 --> 00:19:03,210
gonna go now I'm how'd it go I just

553
00:19:05,930 --> 00:19:04,260
caught the tail end of it they're

554
00:19:09,140 --> 00:19:05,940
basically you were saying don't waste

555
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:09,150
time debating or arguing with the

556
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:10,919
purveyors of whoo that's what you're

557
00:19:15,740 --> 00:19:13,410
saying there's an idea you can if

558
00:19:17,990 --> 00:19:15,750
someone is a true believer and just

559
00:19:19,669 --> 00:19:18,000
believe in what the authority that's

560
00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:19,679
fine you can't argue with those people

561
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:21,690
and a lot in cases that's not therefore

562
00:19:24,950 --> 00:19:23,130
they've just been misinformed and

563
00:19:27,620 --> 00:19:24,960
misguided it's the people who actually

564
00:19:28,940 --> 00:19:27,630
are doing the misinformation they're the

565
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:28,950
ones we've got to stop their polite too

566
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:31,440
so back in the day in younger days you

567
00:19:35,299 --> 00:19:32,910
know did you originally go out and

568
00:19:38,150 --> 00:19:35,309
debate these people I have done it

569
00:19:40,159 --> 00:19:38,160
occasionally I I learned from doing this

570
00:19:42,140 --> 00:19:40,169
entire not to do it again it is part of

571
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:42,150
the problem you don't want to in get

572
00:19:46,390 --> 00:19:43,770
them some sort of credibility as well no

573
00:19:48,530 --> 00:19:46,400
not really part of the problem is that

574
00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:48,540
you don't know what they're going to say

575
00:19:53,690 --> 00:19:51,360
next or they can just throw something I

576
00:19:55,340 --> 00:19:53,700
particular in a spoken to bait if you

577
00:19:57,020 --> 00:19:55,350
you get to speak first you get up and

578
00:19:58,340 --> 00:19:57,030
you give you a three minute talk Oh get

579
00:20:00,590 --> 00:19:58,350
up and they'll simply talk about

580
00:20:02,330 --> 00:20:00,600
something else I don't respond to you

581
00:20:04,820 --> 00:20:02,340
and of course they didn't have the last

582
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:04,830
word and that's it if you have a speak

583
00:20:08,990 --> 00:20:07,020
first they will say things that in their

584
00:20:11,510 --> 00:20:09,000
minute or two might take you two hours

585
00:20:13,370 --> 00:20:11,520
to explain why they're wrong so is there

586
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:13,380
one group that would draw you out for

587
00:20:16,430 --> 00:20:14,850
debate is because I'm always asking me

588
00:20:18,110 --> 00:20:16,440
about their runs personal were that the

589
00:20:19,789 --> 00:20:18,120
noise than the most is there one group

590
00:20:21,470 --> 00:20:19,799
that annoys you so much you would debate

591
00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:21,480
them under any circumstances even if it

592
00:20:24,740 --> 00:20:23,130
made you look less than you would expect

593
00:20:27,140 --> 00:20:24,750
I'd be prepared to debate the

594
00:20:29,299 --> 00:20:27,150
anti-vaccination people i think but i'd

595
00:20:32,270 --> 00:20:29,309
have to have the rule set for the debate

596
00:20:34,940 --> 00:20:32,280
mmm you did a moderator who was totally

597
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:34,950
unbiased or yeah you'd need to make

598
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:36,000
certain rules about the certain things

599
00:20:40,909 --> 00:20:37,950
they could say no what they could refer

600
00:20:42,350 --> 00:20:40,919
to so the rules or the main part of any

601
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:42,360
debate and that's we're really losing a

602
00:20:44,990 --> 00:20:43,290
lot of these things that they won't

603
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:45,000
stick to the rules well the one is that

604
00:20:50,270 --> 00:20:48,210
well when anti-vaxxers talk to me they

605
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:50,280
talk about the danger of mercury and I

606
00:20:54,110 --> 00:20:52,500
mentionable you know it's a very low

607
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:54,120
dose and it's not in a form that's as

608
00:20:57,230 --> 00:20:55,890
easily absorbed as other forms and then

609
00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:57,240
they say well would you go swimming in a

610
00:21:00,150 --> 00:20:58,450
swimming pool of it now

611
00:21:02,220 --> 00:21:00,160
hannig and about that that's a

612
00:21:04,190 --> 00:21:02,230
ridiculous question that they come to

613
00:21:06,180 --> 00:21:04,200
you that's not your question basically

614
00:21:08,670 --> 00:21:06,190
that's what you that's the min you can

615
00:21:09,810 --> 00:21:08,680
tense that's what a question but in fact

616
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:09,820
when you save them all there are no

617
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:12,010
there's only one vaccine Australia has

618
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:14,530
got mercury in it now any amount at all

619
00:21:19,740 --> 00:21:16,810
and by the way it isn't mercury it's a

620
00:21:22,170 --> 00:21:19,750
mercury compound and you point out when

621
00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:22,180
it's salt they put on chips consists of

622
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:23,530
a metal which explodes and you put it in

623
00:21:27,780 --> 00:21:25,090
water and a poisonous gas that was used

624
00:21:29,490 --> 00:21:27,790
in warfare in the First World War why do

625
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:29,500
they prepare to have that and they

626
00:21:32,250 --> 00:21:30,850
haven't they have no answer to that and

627
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:32,260
because something that I've been

628
00:21:36,330 --> 00:21:33,520
wondering about is that there was a

629
00:21:39,930 --> 00:21:36,340
study out earlier this year about a

630
00:21:42,510 --> 00:21:39,940
possible connection between a depressant

631
00:21:44,460 --> 00:21:42,520
drugs and serotonin level and autism and

632
00:21:45,390 --> 00:21:44,470
why haven't I heard more about that I

633
00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:45,400
would have thought that that would have

634
00:21:48,420 --> 00:21:47,170
been an area that the activists would

635
00:21:52,290 --> 00:21:48,430
have also want to look in the two as

636
00:21:54,990 --> 00:21:52,300
well I really don't know this with the

637
00:21:58,110 --> 00:21:55,000
autism business there's two sorts of

638
00:21:59,520 --> 00:21:58,120
activists there there's the people of

639
00:22:02,010 --> 00:21:59,530
making money at a point and cures for

640
00:22:03,630 --> 00:22:02,020
autism and because they keep saying

641
00:22:05,130 --> 00:22:03,640
things like no we can get mercury out of

642
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:05,140
your child will save you if your child

643
00:22:09,030 --> 00:22:07,210
has had a vaccination for the last 12

644
00:22:10,530 --> 00:22:09,040
years they haven't gotten any mercury

645
00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:10,540
preservative by the way the mercury was

646
00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:12,250
put in as a preservative in multi-dose

647
00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:14,620
vials if two single-dose vial of acts of

648
00:22:18,210 --> 00:22:16,720
single shot vaccine it's never had a

649
00:22:19,770 --> 00:22:18,220
preservative in it and there's never

650
00:22:24,570 --> 00:22:19,780
been preservatives in things like the

651
00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:24,580
Muslims vaccine and so forth there's

652
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:26,380
those group they're also a group of

653
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:29,910
people who have autistic children who

654
00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,650
are desperately looking for an answer

655
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:35,200
and a cure but also a bunch of group of

656
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:37,170
people who don't want a cure

657
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:40,210
nutritionally they oppose the people

658
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:42,310
that have the quack cures not because

659
00:22:46,020 --> 00:22:43,570
they're quacks but because they're

660
00:22:48,330 --> 00:22:46,030
offering a cure on the basis that their

661
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:48,340
child this is part of the personality of

662
00:22:55,050 --> 00:22:51,730
the child see the autism it's a defining

663
00:22:56,370 --> 00:22:55,060
thing about the child unlike watch I

664
00:22:59,070 --> 00:22:56,380
don't think like that I'm and if I had a

665
00:23:01,560 --> 00:22:59,080
child that had some kind of problem I'd

666
00:23:03,990 --> 00:23:01,570
want if I could find a cure I could be

667
00:23:05,790 --> 00:23:04,000
looking for similar people I remember

668
00:23:07,530 --> 00:23:05,800
seeing people complaining about cochlear

669
00:23:08,940 --> 00:23:07,540
implants because it removes the child's

670
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:08,950
deafness

671
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:11,050
right I see which is it yeah strange

672
00:23:15,930 --> 00:23:13,090
that were thinking that a disability

673
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:15,940
that now to be cured now we shouldn't do

674
00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:17,530
it because it takes away some

675
00:23:22,590 --> 00:23:20,110
personality from the child yeah what

676
00:23:24,420 --> 00:23:22,600
were you thinking about it you've seen a

677
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:24,430
lot in the world of skepticism what do

678
00:23:28,830 --> 00:23:25,810
you make of today's skeptic camp here in

679
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:28,840
Melbourne I think it's good i've only

680
00:23:33,630 --> 00:23:31,930
seen three talk so far but like all

681
00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:33,640
these sort of all the skeptic have

682
00:23:36,810 --> 00:23:35,260
ability before I think it's a great

683
00:23:38,310 --> 00:23:36,820
opportunity for people who don't often

684
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:38,320
get to speak at conferences to get up

685
00:23:41,460 --> 00:23:39,850
and talk people can talk about anything

686
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:41,470
I like now I know that people been

687
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:42,850
talking in the other room about how to

688
00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:45,010
get skepticism across two children in

689
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:47,470
schools this is an excellent thing if we

690
00:23:51,390 --> 00:23:49,090
can teach but without saying we're going

691
00:23:52,530 --> 00:23:51,400
to teach your skepticism yeah but so

692
00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:52,540
going to teach you and don't even say

693
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:53,740
we're going to teach critical thinking

694
00:23:57,390 --> 00:23:56,080
you can see even that people people get

695
00:24:01,800 --> 00:23:57,400
our I'm going to be learning philosophy

696
00:24:03,150 --> 00:24:01,810
yeah that's right yeah it's just get

697
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:03,160
kids to think about how they solve

698
00:24:07,620 --> 00:24:05,170
problems mmm and have a look for

699
00:24:10,110 --> 00:24:07,630
evidence and kids will do this they're

700
00:24:12,570 --> 00:24:10,120
naturally inquisitive they want to know

701
00:24:14,850 --> 00:24:12,580
the right answer and they're quite happy

702
00:24:17,070 --> 00:24:14,860
to go and investigate look at things

703
00:24:18,570 --> 00:24:17,080
every kid I'm every I don't know what to

704
00:24:20,490 --> 00:24:18,580
do what those days but every kid when I

705
00:24:21,660 --> 00:24:20,500
was at school had a chemistry set well

706
00:24:22,980 --> 00:24:21,670
now that won't let you have them because

707
00:24:24,690 --> 00:24:22,990
they're too dangerous I actually saw a

708
00:24:27,780 --> 00:24:24,700
car through the other day which showed

709
00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:27,790
the level of danger and chemistry sets

710
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:28,900
as they went down to the pub they only

711
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:30,010
had one chemical in them which is

712
00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:31,810
currently the way it works no chemical

713
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:34,240
assault let's go get some lunch before

714
00:24:43,330 --> 00:24:41,260
people are rushing everybody's hushing

715
00:24:45,310 --> 00:24:43,340
here today it's skeptic camp and a man

716
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:45,320
who helped put on Skippy camper sydney

717
00:24:48,910 --> 00:24:46,970
was in fact Jason Brown Hodge Eisenhower

718
00:24:50,890 --> 00:24:48,920
hello a nice is that we're here again

719
00:24:53,290 --> 00:24:50,900
now you would do to be on first this

720
00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:53,300
morning but due to a raging hangover in

721
00:24:57,850 --> 00:24:55,550
a brothel at the oh my god nightclub you

722
00:24:59,170 --> 00:24:57,860
couldn't get here that's quite true and

723
00:25:00,880 --> 00:24:59,180
scandalous and I'm going to take you to

724
00:25:02,620 --> 00:25:00,890
call over it okay that's good well I

725
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:02,630
blew off to a good start now so you can

726
00:25:06,370 --> 00:25:04,130
edit that bit out Richard no don't you

727
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:06,380
dare I tell you you were in there

728
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:09,050
basically you were saying do be a dick

729
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:10,610
bit to the right people is that what you

730
00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:12,290
were saying yes yes originally I was

731
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:14,270
going to do much the same topic SP about

732
00:25:18,850 --> 00:25:17,450
its did this morning but I decided to

733
00:25:22,330 --> 00:25:18,860
concentrate more an efficiency of

734
00:25:24,490 --> 00:25:22,340
message and get the best result maximum

735
00:25:25,660 --> 00:25:24,500
milk for minimum remove now one of your

736
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:25,670
points you made there which a lot of

737
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:26,690
people don't think about because a lot

738
00:25:31,090 --> 00:25:29,210
of people enjoy arguing online with the

739
00:25:33,490 --> 00:25:31,100
ante rude person or word person of their

740
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:33,500
choice is that time is a non-renewable

741
00:25:37,270 --> 00:25:35,690
resource please explain this to us I

742
00:25:38,860 --> 00:25:37,280
love arguing with these people myself

743
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:38,870
but you don't get any result at the end

744
00:25:43,270 --> 00:25:40,490
of it and you spend a lot a lot of time

745
00:25:44,530 --> 00:25:43,280
not getting any result and you know none

746
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:44,540
of us is getting any younger may not

747
00:25:48,460 --> 00:25:46,910
yeah you know well this time has just

748
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:48,470
being frittered away on shouting and

749
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:50,510
meryl dory when we could be talking to

750
00:25:53,470 --> 00:25:51,650
the public and given to vaccinate

751
00:25:55,120 --> 00:25:53,480
instead now now he said for a while

752
00:25:57,870 --> 00:25:55,130
there that Meryl had been removed as the

753
00:26:00,610 --> 00:25:57,880
go-to person for the media is the

754
00:26:02,140 --> 00:26:00,620
opposite to vaccination but she seems to

755
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:02,150
be creeping back once or twice in the

756
00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:04,010
last week or so do you think that that

757
00:26:07,210 --> 00:26:05,570
that effect disappears over time and

758
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:07,220
she'll get back to being well-known in

759
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:09,410
here and she'd like to but sov n is

760
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:10,610
probably always going to be there to do

761
00:26:13,510 --> 00:26:11,810
that but there is always going to be

762
00:26:15,940 --> 00:26:13,520
little holes will appear in the dike and

763
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:15,950
we have to stick our finger in it and

764
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:18,230
you know plug the little gaps this is

765
00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:19,250
going to happen for a while and

766
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:21,710
eventually it'll go away I hope look and

767
00:26:25,570 --> 00:26:23,090
you've obviously been doing a lot of

768
00:26:27,370 --> 00:26:25,580
work with the anti-vaxxers is it another

769
00:26:28,660 --> 00:26:27,380
kind of whew that is sort of secondary

770
00:26:30,490 --> 00:26:28,670
that you like to look at as well I've

771
00:26:32,380 --> 00:26:30,500
been asking everyone and everyone likes

772
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:32,390
everyone mentions any vaccinations

773
00:26:36,100 --> 00:26:33,770
people straight away because the harm

774
00:26:37,810 --> 00:26:36,110
can be seen directly there oh yeah well

775
00:26:39,850 --> 00:26:37,820
I've spent a lot of time arguing with

776
00:26:41,940 --> 00:26:39,860
creationists before I did this sort of

777
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:41,950
thing and I do kind of enjoy that and

778
00:26:46,510 --> 00:26:44,810
while it frustrates me because you can't

779
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:46,520
change their mind it's still very very

780
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:48,170
interesting and I get to find out things

781
00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:49,490
about evolution that I never

782
00:26:53,770 --> 00:26:51,860
yeah so I know all sorts of things about

783
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:53,780
whale evolution like pakka Cetus and

784
00:26:59,560 --> 00:26:55,130
things like that that I never knew well

785
00:27:02,410 --> 00:26:59,570
okay with as ancient astronaut theorists

786
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,420
say if our DNA was not mixed with to

787
00:27:12,790 --> 00:27:04,880
create the Cambrian explosion what did

788
00:27:14,919 --> 00:27:12,800
Oh mathematical inevitability well so

789
00:27:16,299 --> 00:27:14,929
all this stuff happened at once what why

790
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:16,309
couldn't have aliens are being missing

791
00:27:21,580 --> 00:27:18,290
with our DNA in fact lots of DNA to have

792
00:27:22,990 --> 00:27:21,590
all these animals turn up at once that's

793
00:27:25,419 --> 00:27:23,000
that's what I read in the erich von

794
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:25,429
daniken book may not you've stumped me I

795
00:27:28,540 --> 00:27:26,960
do love those Erich von Daniken books

796
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:28,550
yeah carats of the gods is one of my

797
00:27:32,380 --> 00:27:30,050
favorite books of all time return to the

798
00:27:34,299 --> 00:27:32,390
stars I haven't represents the size Gold

799
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:34,309
is gold God's is a really good one as

800
00:27:37,030 --> 00:27:35,330
well and does have some really good

801
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:37,040
photos from South America well yeah it

802
00:27:43,870 --> 00:27:39,530
does from Carlo crespi who was a friend

803
00:27:46,330 --> 00:27:43,880
of james randi I believe we were just

804
00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:46,340
yes I thought the man would come we were

805
00:27:50,350 --> 00:27:48,200
actually asked to leave the skeptic

806
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:50,360
camper for you because we will get used

807
00:27:53,890 --> 00:27:52,010
to it I don't know you know you notice

808
00:27:56,740 --> 00:27:53,900
we were only asked to leave after we

809
00:27:59,200 --> 00:27:56,750
mentioned Erich von Daniken well I think

810
00:28:02,200 --> 00:27:59,210
that's a censorship of opposing views

811
00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:02,210
frankly we've been excluded because we

812
00:28:07,150 --> 00:28:04,130
want Erich von Daniken to have a voice

813
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:07,160
and actually do you enjoy looking at

814
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:08,690
shows like ancient aliens and you'll

815
00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:10,610
enjoy watching paranormal documentary is

816
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:12,200
that baby maybe playing it a bit loose

817
00:28:15,910 --> 00:28:13,850
with the evidence I really used to a lot

818
00:28:18,010 --> 00:28:15,920
and they frustrate me at the moment I

819
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:18,020
have ups and downs you know it's a

820
00:28:20,890 --> 00:28:19,250
little roller coaster rides through my

821
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:20,900
brain where I have my ups and downs

822
00:28:24,010 --> 00:28:22,610
where I can watch them quite happily for

823
00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:24,020
a few months and then I start pegging

824
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:25,910
things at the television and frankly I

825
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:28,010
can't afford a new television and what

826
00:28:32,980 --> 00:28:30,410
has been going on with your podcast the

827
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:32,990
fabulous hard-drinking pod he's kept

828
00:28:37,870 --> 00:28:35,090
Acula in vino veritas podcast yeah we

829
00:28:39,610 --> 00:28:37,880
have a couple of episodes in again so to

830
00:28:41,380 --> 00:28:39,620
speak hit the three episodes and then

831
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:41,390
the can't be arsed fairy came to visit

832
00:28:47,919 --> 00:28:45,170
um yes well not to put the blame on my

833
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:47,929
compatriots Dave happy singer but he's

834
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:50,750
taken over editing duties and you'll

835
00:28:56,049 --> 00:28:53,090
have to ask him well okay there are few

836
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:56,059
in the can so in in in in coming months

837
00:28:59,640 --> 00:28:57,970
where we'll be fine the pond

838
00:29:02,370 --> 00:28:59,650
I'm a fan of it I'm a family the

839
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:02,380
podcaster in vino veritas podcast com or

840
00:29:07,500 --> 00:29:06,070
on itunes under in vino veritas also

841
00:29:09,810 --> 00:29:07,510
through my website and through Dave's

842
00:29:11,580 --> 00:29:09,820
website you can link to it from there um

843
00:29:12,930 --> 00:29:11,590
yes in the next couple of weeks I think

844
00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:12,940
you'll be seen a couple of new episodes

845
00:29:17,790 --> 00:29:15,310
it's funny it's random there's two

846
00:29:20,070 --> 00:29:17,800
skeptics three bottles of alcohol what

847
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:20,080
could be better what could go wrong well

848
00:29:24,570 --> 00:29:22,450
what plenty goes wrong I'm just

849
00:29:26,610 --> 00:29:24,580
imagining if I had put pitch this to the

850
00:29:28,860 --> 00:29:26,620
ABC is summer programming now we've got

851
00:29:30,030 --> 00:29:28,870
two guys and over an hour or two they're

852
00:29:33,030 --> 00:29:30,040
going to drink three bottles of wine and

853
00:29:34,980 --> 00:29:33,040
it's going to go out live I could just

854
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:34,990
imagine the legal department going sure

855
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:39,850
I can't see a problem with that we we

856
00:29:44,550 --> 00:29:42,130
promote responsible consumption of Huck

857
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:44,560
oh oh you certainly do but it's what you

858
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:47,650
say it's a bit like no agenda the second

859
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:50,530
half of the show just as gone wild um I

860
00:29:53,670 --> 00:29:52,090
can never remember the second half of

861
00:29:55,230 --> 00:29:53,680
the show main asset I love to listen

862
00:29:56,550 --> 00:29:55,240
back to see so that's a compelling

863
00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:56,560
reason to listen to the three existing

864
00:30:00,420 --> 00:29:58,810
episodes in any that might be coming up

865
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:00,430
and look Jason what do you make of the

866
00:30:03,150 --> 00:30:01,930
Melbourne skeptic amp any differences

867
00:30:04,830 --> 00:30:03,160
from Sydney I think they've done a

868
00:30:07,020 --> 00:30:04,840
lovely job it seems more intimate than

869
00:30:08,970 --> 00:30:07,030
Sydney Sydney was quite only at one big

870
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:08,980
room and then a long distance to the

871
00:30:14,370 --> 00:30:11,650
second room so it was not so friendly

872
00:30:15,810 --> 00:30:14,380
and close-knit do you think the topics

873
00:30:16,620 --> 00:30:15,820
are slightly different other skeptics in

874
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:16,630
Melbourne interested in anything

875
00:30:20,790 --> 00:30:19,390
different um I think the TGA stuff with

876
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:20,800
ken harvey has been very important to

877
00:30:25,740 --> 00:30:22,930
the melbourne skeptics and so that sort

878
00:30:27,300 --> 00:30:25,750
of regulatory and and sort of public

879
00:30:30,060 --> 00:30:27,310
activism stuff is very important in

880
00:30:31,710 --> 00:30:30,070
melbourne so yeah it's been a little bit

881
00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:31,720
different to the way sydney wants I'm of

882
00:30:35,910 --> 00:30:33,310
course we've got surf coast coming up in

883
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:35,920
January out on the Great Ocean Road

884
00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:38,890
which will be different again I hope so

885
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:40,660
yeah that'll be fun and because we're

886
00:30:44,310 --> 00:30:42,250
all looking forward to drinks afterwards

887
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:44,320
our yes at the good old Clyde hotel

888
00:30:47,610 --> 00:30:45,850
where we inevitably end up after every

889
00:30:51,070 --> 00:30:47,620
skeptical gathering okay you get it the

890
00:30:56,210 --> 00:30:54,200
but I'm here with that bullet just to

891
00:30:59,210 --> 00:30:56,220
tell us who you are I'm Joe ban hammer

892
00:31:01,250 --> 00:30:59,220
and professionally you are a clinical

893
00:31:02,540 --> 00:31:01,260
nurse specialist all right and what does

894
00:31:04,070 --> 00:31:02,550
the name your talk which is up there

895
00:31:06,650 --> 00:31:04,080
name of my talk is getting to the bottom

896
00:31:09,020 --> 00:31:06,660
of colon cleansing well now as someone I

897
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:09,030
now on the show last week you told

898
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:10,710
everybody that I had recently been

899
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:14,100
inside a bottom yes I did it look I'm

900
00:31:19,070 --> 00:31:16,290
fine with that you know my private life

901
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:19,080
being exposed is fine but what you meant

902
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:22,740
was that I was inside a large oversized

903
00:31:26,810 --> 00:31:25,440
coal on it was as almost half the sizes

904
00:31:28,940 --> 00:31:26,820
lecture theatre and I walk through it

905
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,950
it's absolutely right it's an invaluable

906
00:31:33,890 --> 00:31:30,720
exhibit that they've got on for

907
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:33,900
educating people about bowel health and

908
00:31:37,130 --> 00:31:35,730
in fact my dad has pestered me so much

909
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:37,140
and this is the only reason that I'm

910
00:31:40,490 --> 00:31:38,730
actually going to have a column Scotty

911
00:31:41,990 --> 00:31:40,500
and what's it when you put it down well

912
00:31:43,370 --> 00:31:42,000
it's either an endoscopy or a

913
00:31:45,290 --> 00:31:43,380
gastroscopy people find it quite

914
00:31:47,930 --> 00:31:45,300
confusing because I'm having both done

915
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:47,940
at the same time to shut him up and I

916
00:31:51,140 --> 00:31:49,530
don't to go back for ten years that's

917
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:51,150
fantastic and it's something I encourage

918
00:31:53,990 --> 00:31:52,410
all people to do is to talk to their

919
00:31:55,670 --> 00:31:54,000
doctors about their bowel health and

920
00:31:57,470 --> 00:31:55,680
find out about what the appropriate

921
00:31:59,450 --> 00:31:57,480
screening is for them because you see

922
00:32:00,800 --> 00:31:59,460
people at home game listen to this now

923
00:32:03,260 --> 00:32:00,810
because this is a topic that's not

924
00:32:05,290 --> 00:32:03,270
pleasant it's not fun yeah exactly like

925
00:32:07,970 --> 00:32:05,300
talking about their bottom I know

926
00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,980
understandably but at what age should

927
00:32:11,420 --> 00:32:09,840
you actually go and start I'm if you

928
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:11,430
have if you don't have any problem what

929
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:12,330
age should you actually go and have a

930
00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:13,230
screen because I haven't got any

931
00:32:16,370 --> 00:32:14,790
problems at all I'm thinking why should

932
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:16,380
I even go and have a look well the

933
00:32:21,350 --> 00:32:17,910
recommendations are that anyone over the

934
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:21,360
age of 50 should should be having I'm

935
00:32:24,740 --> 00:32:23,250
not big enough going a couple years old

936
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:24,750
you have a family history of bowel

937
00:32:29,390 --> 00:32:27,840
cancer I think there is someone

938
00:32:32,630 --> 00:32:29,400
somewhere year so people who do have a

939
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:32,640
close relative who has had bowel cancer

940
00:32:36,620 --> 00:32:34,410
it's recommended that they start

941
00:32:38,180 --> 00:32:36,630
screening once they hit the age of 40

942
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:38,190
now that doesn't necessarily mean that

943
00:32:42,500 --> 00:32:39,330
you have to pop off and have a

944
00:32:43,940 --> 00:32:42,510
colonoscopy but you should at least be

945
00:32:45,500 --> 00:32:43,950
having a conversation with your doctor

946
00:32:46,820 --> 00:32:45,510
about what's appropriate for you and in

947
00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:46,830
some people it's just a matter of having

948
00:32:51,890 --> 00:32:49,620
a little test called a fecal occult

949
00:32:53,570 --> 00:32:51,900
blood test and again people find it a

950
00:32:55,100 --> 00:32:53,580
bit icky because you have to you have to

951
00:32:58,370 --> 00:32:55,110
send off a little bit of / to

952
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:58,380
morituri and again this is and look to

953
00:33:01,460 --> 00:33:00,000
me this would be the number one reason

954
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:01,470
why no one wants to have anything to do

955
00:33:05,510 --> 00:33:03,210
with it yeah absolutely people find it

956
00:33:07,220 --> 00:33:05,520
embarrassing and you know that's one of

957
00:33:09,230 --> 00:33:07,230
those conversations that people just

958
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:09,240
don't like talking about it but it is so

959
00:33:12,890 --> 00:33:10,530
important and the reason it's so

960
00:33:15,470 --> 00:33:12,900
important is that bowel cancer is one of

961
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:15,480
the most preventable cancers and if it's

962
00:33:20,390 --> 00:33:17,610
caught if it's caught early that is and

963
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:20,400
and by doing so you you know i mean i

964
00:33:23,690 --> 00:33:21,450
think really looking at the statistics

965
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:23,700
it's got the second highest death rate

966
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:25,320
after lung cancer but it's one of the

967
00:33:28,820 --> 00:33:27,690
highest most diagnosed cancers but it's

968
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:28,830
also the most preventable with its

969
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:31,970
quarterly and will you be showing any

970
00:33:36,289 --> 00:33:34,260
graphic I mean will you have a photo of

971
00:33:37,940 --> 00:33:36,299
a large inflatable column any of I've

972
00:33:39,169 --> 00:33:37,950
got far more interesting photos and

973
00:33:40,580 --> 00:33:39,179
inflatable cole lines because I'm

974
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:40,590
actually going to be talking today more

975
00:33:43,340 --> 00:33:42,210
about some of the myths about the bowel

976
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:43,350
and some of the weird and wonderful

977
00:33:48,049 --> 00:33:46,650
things that people believe about what we

978
00:33:49,580 --> 00:33:48,059
need to do to look after our bowels

979
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:49,590
because there's a huge amount of

980
00:33:53,659 --> 00:33:51,600
misinformation out there about how the

981
00:33:55,010 --> 00:33:53,669
bowel works and what we need to do to

982
00:33:56,659 --> 00:33:55,020
look after it my mum's got

983
00:33:57,770 --> 00:33:56,669
diverticulitis does that mean that I

984
00:34:01,310 --> 00:33:57,780
could have something and what is that

985
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:01,320
I'm directing well diverticulosis is

986
00:34:06,409 --> 00:34:03,600
where there are small sort of pockets

987
00:34:08,450 --> 00:34:06,419
that format in the bowel wall and and

988
00:34:09,680 --> 00:34:08,460
it's quite an anatomical thing it's just

989
00:34:12,109 --> 00:34:09,690
sort of where there are weaker points

990
00:34:13,669 --> 00:34:12,119
along the walk along the the bell and

991
00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:13,679
they form little pockets is there

992
00:34:16,820 --> 00:34:15,030
nothing wrong with that or because she's

993
00:34:18,109 --> 00:34:16,830
told you can't eat nuts the thing is

994
00:34:19,609 --> 00:34:18,119
that what can happen is people who can

995
00:34:22,129 --> 00:34:19,619
get species trapped in those little

996
00:34:24,590 --> 00:34:22,139
pockets they can also become inflamed

997
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:24,600
that's when you get diverticulitis so

998
00:34:27,260 --> 00:34:25,679
diverticulitis is when you get

999
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:27,270
inflammation of those little pockets in

1000
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:28,770
the bowel and it can be very

1001
00:34:33,379 --> 00:34:30,570
uncomfortable and people who've got

1002
00:34:34,730 --> 00:34:33,389
diverticulosis often advised to just

1003
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:34,740
sort of watch what they eat because the

1004
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:36,690
things that might irritate it and what's

1005
00:34:39,349 --> 00:34:37,919
the biggest piece of woo what is

1006
00:34:41,930 --> 00:34:39,359
something that people have told over and

1007
00:34:43,399 --> 00:34:41,940
over again not to do for bowel health or

1008
00:34:44,649 --> 00:34:43,409
to do for bowel health that really

1009
00:34:47,720 --> 00:34:44,659
doesn't make a difference in the way

1010
00:34:50,119 --> 00:34:47,730
well in fact things like drinking lots

1011
00:34:52,790 --> 00:34:50,129
and lots and lots of water and while

1012
00:34:54,409 --> 00:34:52,800
being hydrated is important what we get

1013
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:54,419
in our normal diet keeps us pretty well

1014
00:34:58,099 --> 00:34:55,770
hydrated a lot of people are talking

1015
00:35:00,070 --> 00:34:58,109
what about it what about if you're at a

1016
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:00,080
rave and you're on your second day I

1017
00:35:04,070 --> 00:35:02,490
mean I was always told to drink lots of

1018
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:04,080
water but not too much people will be

1019
00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:05,490
thinking too much about their bowels in

1020
00:35:07,490 --> 00:35:05,800
met

1021
00:35:09,930 --> 00:35:07,500
yeah that's true tonight I don't know

1022
00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:09,940
but but a lot of their beliefs about

1023
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:12,730
things like having a clean bowel and

1024
00:35:16,740 --> 00:35:14,800
colon cleansing so people going off and

1025
00:35:19,140 --> 00:35:16,750
having colonic irrigation I have had to

1026
00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:19,150
clinic irrigations in my life oh poor

1027
00:35:24,660 --> 00:35:22,510
thing and they and I went to the first

1028
00:35:26,730 --> 00:35:24,670
one and it was one of the most unusual

1029
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:26,740
experiences I've ever had in my life and

1030
00:35:30,750 --> 00:35:28,570
it felt like it did absolutely nothing

1031
00:35:32,370 --> 00:35:30,760
and I said oh well everyone says I'll

1032
00:35:34,050 --> 00:35:32,380
give it another go in a second go and it

1033
00:35:36,090 --> 00:35:34,060
was one again by the weirdest things

1034
00:35:38,010 --> 00:35:36,100
I've ever done in my life and it nothing

1035
00:35:39,450 --> 00:35:38,020
actually happened and is that because

1036
00:35:41,550 --> 00:35:39,460
they can't go up high enough to do

1037
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:41,560
anything and you don't really want no in

1038
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:43,570
fact in fact it actually when they when

1039
00:35:48,780 --> 00:35:46,450
they do perform colonic irrigation they

1040
00:35:50,910 --> 00:35:48,790
actually can clean out the entire length

1041
00:35:52,020 --> 00:35:50,920
of the bowel all the way to the cecum

1042
00:35:53,790 --> 00:35:52,030
which is where you're small and large

1043
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:53,800
bowel meet up so travels a long way up

1044
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:55,330
and what you learn to that there is no

1045
00:35:59,340 --> 00:35:57,010
advantage there is absolutely no

1046
00:36:00,990 --> 00:35:59,350
advantage to it you know people will

1047
00:36:01,910 --> 00:36:01,000
suddenly feel lighter and they might

1048
00:36:04,590 --> 00:36:01,920
have a bit of a flatter stomach

1049
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:04,600
immediately but straight afterwards your

1050
00:36:08,220 --> 00:36:06,490
colon will just fill up again the claims

1051
00:36:11,370 --> 00:36:08,230
that are made about colon cleansing is

1052
00:36:12,990 --> 00:36:11,380
that it detoxifies you and people who

1053
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:13,000
believe in this stuff believe that your

1054
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:15,250
bowel is full of toxins and that there

1055
00:36:18,810 --> 00:36:17,350
are years and years of feces that are

1056
00:36:20,670 --> 00:36:18,820
sitting in there clogging you up and

1057
00:36:22,770 --> 00:36:20,680
poisoning you but there's absolutely no

1058
00:36:24,330 --> 00:36:22,780
evidence to support that and i was told

1059
00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:24,340
that like some year old drugs might come

1060
00:36:27,380 --> 00:36:25,540
on again because i'll be washed further

1061
00:36:30,510 --> 00:36:27,390
down didn't have didn't happen I know

1062
00:36:31,770 --> 00:36:30,520
that because move that thing cuz I would

1063
00:36:33,660 --> 00:36:31,780
not like to think that anything I've

1064
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,670
taken still up there from couple years

1065
00:36:36,510 --> 00:36:35,440
ago exactly i mean it's kind of like you

1066
00:36:37,650 --> 00:36:36,520
know the whole thing about chewing gum

1067
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:37,660
that if you swallow your chewing gum

1068
00:36:42,030 --> 00:36:39,850
that it's gonna sit in your stomach for

1069
00:36:43,530 --> 00:36:42,040
years well i can tell you now i've

1070
00:36:45,090 --> 00:36:43,540
looked into a lot of people's stomachs

1071
00:36:46,710 --> 00:36:45,100
and colons and I've never seen any

1072
00:36:48,090 --> 00:36:46,720
chewing I'm hanging around in this I

1073
00:36:49,980 --> 00:36:48,100
don't know as far as you medically know

1074
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:49,990
is there anyone that would have an

1075
00:36:55,980 --> 00:36:51,910
advantage from have a colonic irrigation

1076
00:36:59,250 --> 00:36:55,990
um look uh there are people who have

1077
00:37:00,990 --> 00:36:59,260
certain for example people who have

1078
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:01,000
difficulty in going to the toilet

1079
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:02,650
normally like people who have spinal

1080
00:37:08,190 --> 00:37:06,370
cord injuries and so on but doing but

1081
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:08,200
sorry cleaning out their bowels

1082
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:09,610
shouldn't be done through a colonic

1083
00:37:13,590 --> 00:37:12,400
irrigation which is often performed by

1084
00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:13,600
someone really with no medical

1085
00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:15,730
background there are other ways to do

1086
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:18,370
that for example things like enemies and

1087
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:20,290
they're usually performed by medically

1088
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:22,410
qualified people and there they are

1089
00:37:28,610 --> 00:37:25,050
they're diagnose so that they are

1090
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:28,620
prescribed by doctors and given by

1091
00:37:31,650 --> 00:37:30,610
people who know what they're doing where

1092
00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:31,660
is with something like colonic

1093
00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:33,220
irrigation there are significant risks

1094
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:35,320
involved and not good evidence at all

1095
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:37,510
for the use so there are some people who

1096
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:39,550
really do actually need help with going

1097
00:37:42,990 --> 00:37:41,770
to the toilet so so what are the risks

1098
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:43,000
someone could turn the tap on to her

1099
00:37:46,170 --> 00:37:45,010
well actually yeah that would be a risk

1100
00:37:47,730 --> 00:37:46,180
actually if you're putting too high

1101
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:47,740
pressure through the batter mostly it's

1102
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:49,690
gravity feed so it's usually okay well

1103
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:51,130
there's two ways actually they can do it

1104
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:54,370
through gravity or mechanically and and

1105
00:37:57,630 --> 00:37:56,050
the pressure from the water could do

1106
00:37:59,640 --> 00:37:57,640
damage to the bowel but also there's a

1107
00:38:01,920 --> 00:37:59,650
risk from the tube itself of perforating

1108
00:38:03,570 --> 00:38:01,930
the bell and that can actually call that

1109
00:38:06,540 --> 00:38:03,580
could kill someone you can get a

1110
00:38:08,010 --> 00:38:06,550
catastrophic infection from that and I

1111
00:38:09,660 --> 00:38:08,020
mean look you know there are medical

1112
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:09,670
procedures that carries similar risks

1113
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:10,810
but in the case of those medical

1114
00:38:13,590 --> 00:38:11,890
procedures there's very good evidence

1115
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:13,600
for doing them they're done in the

1116
00:38:18,030 --> 00:38:16,330
controlled environment and patients are

1117
00:38:19,970 --> 00:38:18,040
informed and aware of those risks where

1118
00:38:22,260 --> 00:38:19,980
is it something like colonic irrigation

1119
00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:22,270
you're taking a risk for no betta fish

1120
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:24,400
now what the name of your talk of course

1121
00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:26,560
is getting to the bottom of the colon

1122
00:38:30,900 --> 00:38:28,510
cleansing now is that available online

1123
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:30,910
can we sit anywhere online yet I know

1124
00:38:35,220 --> 00:38:33,850
not as yet but I'll see what I can do

1125
00:38:36,450 --> 00:38:35,230
about that because if people are

1126
00:38:37,890 --> 00:38:36,460
interested I'd be more than happy to

1127
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:37,900
provide so let's see how we're going to

1128
00:38:43,050 --> 00:38:40,480
get the jokes is this a bum rap will

1129
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:43,060
anyone poopoo your talk what else has

1130
00:38:49,110 --> 00:38:47,230
been done so far oh let's see ah sorry

1131
00:38:50,970 --> 00:38:49,120
my brains just suddenly people said that

1132
00:38:54,540 --> 00:38:50,980
you're talking out about it yet talking

1133
00:38:56,700 --> 00:38:54,550
out of your bum bum in fact bomb you

1134
00:38:58,470 --> 00:38:56,710
know temos boobs was the catchword 40

1135
00:39:02,700 --> 00:38:58,480
miles we've decided bums is the word for

1136
00:39:16,660 --> 00:39:02,710
for skeptic amp so uh okay well Joe bum

1137
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:20,660
hi this is surly Amy from skeptic org I

1138
00:39:25,340 --> 00:39:23,370
make ceramic jewelry it's hand formed

1139
00:39:27,890 --> 00:39:25,350
and hand-painted it's inspired by

1140
00:39:32,060 --> 00:39:27,900
science and skepticism you can find it

1141
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:32,070
at surly romics com s you are ly are am

1142
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:40,410
ICS calm thanks and be skeptical now

1143
00:39:48,770 --> 00:39:43,170
it's time for dr. Rachel reports with

1144
00:39:51,260 --> 00:39:48,780
dr. Rachel Dunlop and i'm here at the

1145
00:39:52,850 --> 00:39:51,270
2011 shonky awards the choice shonky

1146
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:52,860
wards and I'm with Chris Barnes from

1147
00:39:57,140 --> 00:39:55,500
choice hi Chris hi Rachel thanks for

1148
00:39:59,570 --> 00:39:57,150
talking to us we've just wrapped up the

1149
00:40:03,020 --> 00:39:59,580
award ceremony or the I guess non award

1150
00:40:04,220 --> 00:40:03,030
ceremony today one of the products that

1151
00:40:06,590 --> 00:40:04,230
got a big shout out today was

1152
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:06,600
senselessly wasn't it that's right yeah

1153
00:40:11,780 --> 00:40:09,680
yep the classic case of Ashanti really

1154
00:40:13,550 --> 00:40:11,790
you know a product that clearly doesn't

1155
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:13,560
live up to its claims in any way shape

1156
00:40:19,100 --> 00:40:16,890
or form and which the company that sells

1157
00:40:21,610 --> 00:40:19,110
it defend themselves through the courts

1158
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:21,620
you know using every possible tactic

1159
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:23,970
yeah thoroughly thoroughly deserving

1160
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:26,370
Ashanti I think yeah and I noticed with

1161
00:40:30,110 --> 00:40:27,720
interest that you gave the TGA an

1162
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:30,120
honorable mention in the Shan q4 sense

1163
00:40:34,460 --> 00:40:31,850
aslam can you tell us why you did that

1164
00:40:38,090 --> 00:40:34,470
well look this is a little outside my

1165
00:40:39,950 --> 00:40:38,100
area but the TGA time and time again

1166
00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:39,960
seems to prove himself to be something

1167
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:41,580
of a toothless tiger in this kind of

1168
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:44,610
arena yeah it's clearly got the

1169
00:40:49,490 --> 00:40:47,730
responsibility to administer drugs and

1170
00:40:53,300 --> 00:40:49,500
medications which sense aslam if it

1171
00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:53,310
worked should be classed asked but you

1172
00:40:56,540 --> 00:40:54,660
know it just seems that they have

1173
00:40:58,340 --> 00:40:56,550
absolutely no ability perhaps there are

1174
00:41:00,980 --> 00:40:58,350
limited resources and funding like so

1175
00:41:02,690 --> 00:41:00,990
many government government agencies but

1176
00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:02,700
they simply very limited in their

1177
00:41:07,310 --> 00:41:05,640
ability to achieve anything though when

1178
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:07,320
they do hand down a ruling companies

1179
00:41:12,660 --> 00:41:10,090
seem to sometimes ignore those you know

1180
00:41:14,340 --> 00:41:12,670
at wind of course the penalties you know

1181
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:14,350
they're too easy for them to shrug off

1182
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:16,840
so I have a little bit of sympathy with

1183
00:41:21,170 --> 00:41:18,850
probably the very hardworking people in

1184
00:41:23,460 --> 00:41:21,180
the TGA but the organization as a whole

1185
00:41:26,070 --> 00:41:23,470
really need something of an overhaul I

1186
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:26,080
think yeah well we when Christopher's in

1187
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:28,090
who's the media spokesperson for Joyce

1188
00:41:32,010 --> 00:41:29,770
was presenting that award today he was

1189
00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:32,020
mentioning the name Peter Foster now

1190
00:41:35,670 --> 00:41:33,340
many people in Australia wouldn't know

1191
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:35,680
Peter Foster is the famous con man who

1192
00:41:39,390 --> 00:41:37,330
famously was caught trying to escape

1193
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:39,400
from Vanuatu in his underpants or

1194
00:41:43,470 --> 00:41:41,290
something right so I mean these people

1195
00:41:45,150 --> 00:41:43,480
are not unknown to authorities here I

1196
00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:45,160
think you would think that the name a

1197
00:41:48,930 --> 00:41:46,900
name like that would be a big alarm

1198
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:48,940
bells for people in the TGA and and

1199
00:41:56,910 --> 00:41:55,090
anyone else who look I don't know how it

1200
00:41:59,610 --> 00:41:56,920
is austere ended up involved of its

1201
00:42:01,920 --> 00:41:59,620
involvement with the company was but SI

1202
00:42:04,530 --> 00:42:01,930
so when someone with his track record

1203
00:42:06,540 --> 00:42:04,540
track record is involved did you know

1204
00:42:09,750 --> 00:42:06,550
that there's something likely to be a

1205
00:42:11,580 --> 00:42:09,760
mess yeah yeah and there was also an

1206
00:42:13,740 --> 00:42:11,590
institute that was apparently doing all

1207
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:13,750
the clinical studies in Switzerland but

1208
00:42:17,790 --> 00:42:15,370
Christopher said turned out they sort of

1209
00:42:19,290 --> 00:42:17,800
copy pasted pictures of people that

1210
00:42:21,780 --> 00:42:19,300
didn't exist and sort of made up a

1211
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:21,790
website well yes I believe that you know

1212
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:24,010
the scientists they listed they probably

1213
00:42:28,260 --> 00:42:25,690
photographs of scientists from other

1214
00:42:30,210 --> 00:42:28,270
organizations elsewhere around the world

1215
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:30,220
who obviously had absolutely nothing to

1216
00:42:33,420 --> 00:42:31,930
do with it and were probably rightly

1217
00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:33,430
horrified when they found out what had

1218
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:36,760
been done choice has its own

1219
00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:38,650
laboratories we're not are accredited we

1220
00:42:44,370 --> 00:42:40,990
know the rigor and detail that is

1221
00:42:45,930 --> 00:42:44,380
required to run a proper laboratory you

1222
00:42:48,030 --> 00:42:45,940
know the instrumentation that needs to

1223
00:42:50,790 --> 00:42:48,040
be calibrated the training as the staff

1224
00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:50,800
and we work with a lot of other highly

1225
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:53,230
accredited laboratories as well so it's

1226
00:42:57,450 --> 00:42:55,210
particularly painful to us to find out

1227
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:57,460
that there are these sort of chunky labs

1228
00:43:00,520 --> 00:42:59,440
out there if labor is even the right

1229
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:00,530
word

1230
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:03,530
the past themselves office giving ballad

1231
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:05,330
group results and useful scientific

1232
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:08,210
results and couch it all in a nice

1233
00:43:12,190 --> 00:43:10,010
scientific sounding term so that the

1234
00:43:14,290 --> 00:43:12,200
layman will see that and thing all this

1235
00:43:16,510 --> 00:43:14,300
is Labor tested it must be all right you

1236
00:43:18,100 --> 00:43:16,520
know that they're simply simply not the

1237
00:43:20,350 --> 00:43:18,110
case well the other thing I guess to in

1238
00:43:22,390 --> 00:43:20,360
that is the TGA approved which is what

1239
00:43:24,190 --> 00:43:22,400
they claim as well well exactly and the

1240
00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:24,200
consumer is entitled to think that a

1241
00:43:28,720 --> 00:43:26,720
phrase like a label like TGA approved

1242
00:43:31,900 --> 00:43:28,730
means something that it is actually a

1243
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:31,910
hallmark of quality and unfortunately so

1244
00:43:36,270 --> 00:43:34,130
often it turns out not to be yeah in

1245
00:43:38,410 --> 00:43:36,280
fact it's illegal to say TGA approved

1246
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:38,420
according to the TGA you're not allowed

1247
00:43:42,940 --> 00:43:40,370
to make that claim but of course like

1248
00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:42,950
many things that the TGA say never get

1249
00:43:48,730 --> 00:43:46,490
enforced well yes yes yeah goes back to

1250
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:48,740
mine I said before that they are

1251
00:43:51,940 --> 00:43:49,850
something of a toothless tiger

1252
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:51,950
unfortunately yeah well there was one

1253
00:43:55,510 --> 00:43:53,570
piece of good news at the beginning of

1254
00:43:57,550 --> 00:43:55,520
the proceedings today when Christopher

1255
00:43:59,440 --> 00:43:57,560
mentioned that last year power balance

1256
00:44:00,910 --> 00:43:59,450
was given a shonky and what's happened

1257
00:44:03,850 --> 00:44:00,920
to power balance since well power

1258
00:44:05,620 --> 00:44:03,860
balance the company after after we gave

1259
00:44:06,970 --> 00:44:05,630
them Ashanti we put their products

1260
00:44:07,930 --> 00:44:06,980
through the test found of course it

1261
00:44:09,970 --> 00:44:07,940
there was nothing more than a rubber

1262
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:09,980
band with some plastic attached didn't

1263
00:44:14,290 --> 00:44:12,530
do any of the claims that have made to

1264
00:44:17,260 --> 00:44:14,300
improve his strength and flexibility and

1265
00:44:19,570 --> 00:44:17,270
everything else the a Triple C got onto

1266
00:44:21,070 --> 00:44:19,580
it banned them this is great this is

1267
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:21,080
what this is a regulator doing what it

1268
00:44:26,650 --> 00:44:23,810
should do yeah and that was fantastic to

1269
00:44:29,380 --> 00:44:26,660
see the company in Australia went into

1270
00:44:33,580 --> 00:44:29,390
administration I think and closed down I

1271
00:44:34,990 --> 00:44:33,590
think they're the guy who ran it went

1272
00:44:36,490 --> 00:44:35,000
overseas I don't he said he was going to

1273
00:44:37,810 --> 00:44:36,500
come back and face the music but I don't

1274
00:44:41,050 --> 00:44:37,820
know if he did or not open followed us

1275
00:44:43,060 --> 00:44:41,060
and Tom made yeah oh my dad yeah so he

1276
00:44:44,950 --> 00:44:43,070
might have done that but I haven't

1277
00:44:46,300 --> 00:44:44,960
followed that but as far as i know the

1278
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:46,310
company is still going strong in the

1279
00:44:50,110 --> 00:44:48,890
States yes and then if in his power

1280
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:50,120
balance itself had completely

1281
00:44:54,310 --> 00:44:52,010
disappeared off the face of the earth as

1282
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:54,320
you well know every time he shot one of

1283
00:44:58,270 --> 00:44:56,330
these guys down two or three more spring

1284
00:45:00,010 --> 00:44:58,280
up it's like fighting the Hydra you know

1285
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:00,020
and there are so many other of these

1286
00:45:03,340 --> 00:45:01,730
shonky rubberband type products out

1287
00:45:06,549 --> 00:45:03,350
there you know making these ludicrous

1288
00:45:09,380 --> 00:45:06,559
claims with absolutely no basis to them

1289
00:45:10,999 --> 00:45:09,390
and so I mean it's great to knock down

1290
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:11,009
one of the big ones like Power Balance

1291
00:45:15,259 --> 00:45:13,130
but people really need to be aware that

1292
00:45:16,910 --> 00:45:15,269
everything else out there that looks the

1293
00:45:20,029 --> 00:45:16,920
same and makes the same claims is the

1294
00:45:21,769 --> 00:45:20,039
same in other words it's rubbish so

1295
00:45:24,529 --> 00:45:21,779
there was one of the other chunkies that

1296
00:45:27,589 --> 00:45:24,539
was awarded today was go green power

1297
00:45:29,299 --> 00:45:27,599
saver ah the go for green oh yeah look

1298
00:45:32,809 --> 00:45:29,309
there's a lot of these these gadgets

1299
00:45:35,749 --> 00:45:32,819
around we tested one last year or the

1300
00:45:38,569 --> 00:45:35,759
year before a comp remember the another

1301
00:45:40,130 --> 00:45:38,579
power saver device these power factor

1302
00:45:43,339 --> 00:45:40,140
correction devices which is usually what

1303
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:43,349
they are if they even achieve that mind

1304
00:45:49,459 --> 00:45:46,049
you power factor is basically a measure

1305
00:45:51,859 --> 00:45:49,469
of how efficiently the supply of

1306
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:51,869
electricity into a house or factory or

1307
00:45:57,650 --> 00:45:55,529
whatever is actually being used when

1308
00:46:00,079 --> 00:45:57,660
you're using huge amount of electricity

1309
00:46:03,499 --> 00:46:00,089
as you are in a factory or a huge

1310
00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:03,509
building here commercial building you

1311
00:46:07,609 --> 00:46:05,160
actually do get charged for power factor

1312
00:46:09,169 --> 00:46:07,619
because the company electricity company

1313
00:46:11,209 --> 00:46:09,179
has to supply a vast amount of power to

1314
00:46:12,559 --> 00:46:11,219
that building it wants to be made to

1315
00:46:15,410 --> 00:46:12,569
make sure that it's doing that as

1316
00:46:17,959 --> 00:46:15,420
efficiently as it can so those those

1317
00:46:19,999 --> 00:46:17,969
sorts of institutions and facilities do

1318
00:46:21,169 --> 00:46:20,009
get charged for poor power factor so

1319
00:46:25,189 --> 00:46:21,179
they have big power factor correction

1320
00:46:27,799 --> 00:46:25,199
devices set up in their plans the

1321
00:46:29,299 --> 00:46:27,809
ordinary consumers home doesn't need

1322
00:46:30,620 --> 00:46:29,309
that because the ordinary consumer is

1323
00:46:33,429 --> 00:46:30,630
only actually charged for the

1324
00:46:35,539 --> 00:46:33,439
electricity that they actually use and

1325
00:46:37,039 --> 00:46:35,549
this might not sound very good in this

1326
00:46:39,549 --> 00:46:37,049
days of trying to keep everything green

1327
00:46:41,900 --> 00:46:39,559
and you know generating less power but

1328
00:46:44,380 --> 00:46:41,910
if the electricity company has to

1329
00:46:46,669 --> 00:46:44,390
actually generate twice as much power to

1330
00:46:48,709 --> 00:46:46,679
supply you with the power that you need

1331
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:48,719
because your home is so inefficiently

1332
00:46:52,009 --> 00:46:50,249
why then you've got such a poor power

1333
00:46:53,989 --> 00:46:52,019
factor well it's not very good for the

1334
00:46:55,699 --> 00:46:53,999
environment but you don't pay for it you

1335
00:46:58,759 --> 00:46:55,709
only still pay for that electricity use

1336
00:47:00,919 --> 00:46:58,769
and the fact is modern appliances and

1337
00:47:02,539 --> 00:47:00,929
modern homes have generally on average

1338
00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:02,549
have a reasonably good power factor so

1339
00:47:05,910 --> 00:47:03,900
there's not actually huge amounts to be

1340
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:05,920
saved by correcting power factor in any

1341
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:09,200
so that's all that these devices can do

1342
00:47:13,330 --> 00:47:10,880
some of them don't even succeed in doing

1343
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:13,340
that at best you're going to save a

1344
00:47:16,870 --> 00:47:15,410
sentir or ascent there and when they're

1345
00:47:18,730 --> 00:47:16,880
charging you to under the throne of

1346
00:47:21,610 --> 00:47:18,740
dollars for the thing it's an absolute

1347
00:47:24,340 --> 00:47:21,620
wrought you know anything that claims to

1348
00:47:27,430 --> 00:47:24,350
reduce your power simply by plugging it

1349
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:27,440
into a circuit you know treated like

1350
00:47:31,150 --> 00:47:29,450
there's a piece of shopping equipment

1351
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:31,160
that it probably is the only way to

1352
00:47:35,140 --> 00:47:33,110
really safe power is his lace over in

1353
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:35,150
turn your appliances offer at the wall

1354
00:47:38,380 --> 00:47:37,010
don't turn your air conditioner on if

1355
00:47:41,620 --> 00:47:38,390
you don't need to all that sort of stuff

1356
00:47:43,030 --> 00:47:41,630
in common sense stuff really yeah one of

1357
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:43,040
the other ones we looked at today was

1358
00:47:48,910 --> 00:47:46,970
also the baby bling which I couldn't

1359
00:47:52,420 --> 00:47:48,920
believe that people sell that it's

1360
00:47:55,510 --> 00:47:52,430
basically a dummy or a pacifier that has

1361
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:55,520
crystals glued onto the face right

1362
00:47:59,170 --> 00:47:57,770
that's right I'm looking I think a lot

1363
00:48:01,000 --> 00:47:59,180
of the people making these with small

1364
00:48:03,100 --> 00:48:01,010
businesses you know work from home mums

1365
00:48:04,750 --> 00:48:03,110
that sort of thing and of course they

1366
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:04,760
all meant well you know thought of

1367
00:48:09,370 --> 00:48:06,650
creating something beautiful that people

1368
00:48:11,350 --> 00:48:09,380
could you know have their their their

1369
00:48:12,430 --> 00:48:11,360
beautiful babies put in their mouths and

1370
00:48:16,060 --> 00:48:12,440
everyone would be happy and everyone

1371
00:48:17,830 --> 00:48:16,070
would look beautiful and you know so but

1372
00:48:19,890 --> 00:48:17,840
we being well meaning in this area just

1373
00:48:22,720 --> 00:48:19,900
isn't good enough there are regulations

1374
00:48:25,570 --> 00:48:22,730
about dummies you know about babies

1375
00:48:27,580 --> 00:48:25,580
dummies and pacifiers the size they have

1376
00:48:29,470 --> 00:48:27,590
to be that you know that the teat has to

1377
00:48:30,580 --> 00:48:29,480
have a certain tensile strength so it's

1378
00:48:33,610 --> 00:48:30,590
not going to come off in the baby's

1379
00:48:35,530 --> 00:48:33,620
mouth and we test these a choice so we

1380
00:48:37,060 --> 00:48:35,540
know all about that aspect but if course

1381
00:48:39,310 --> 00:48:37,070
one of the things that you can't have is

1382
00:48:40,980 --> 00:48:39,320
small parts that can come off yeah want

1383
00:48:43,720 --> 00:48:40,990
any too I know what choking hazard

1384
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:43,730
choking hazards small parts of break off

1385
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:46,610
all that come off under easy easy sort

1386
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:48,170
of force which these crystals

1387
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:52,610
unfortunately usually were toy standards

1388
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:53,810
all of the thing that they're very

1389
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:55,010
strict on that kind of thing because

1390
00:48:58,960 --> 00:48:56,810
choking hazards are actually the most

1391
00:49:00,940 --> 00:48:58,970
dangerous hazard on any kids products

1392
00:49:02,470 --> 00:49:00,950
usually I mean certainly on toys and

1393
00:49:05,470 --> 00:49:02,480
anything that's going to go near the

1394
00:49:07,930 --> 00:49:05,480
baby's mouth like a dummy we get scared

1395
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:07,940
about lead in paint on on kids toys from

1396
00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:09,090
time to time the fee

1397
00:49:12,380 --> 00:49:11,190
to go there's a big scare in China and

1398
00:49:13,820 --> 00:49:12,390
that's important you know we have

1399
00:49:16,070 --> 00:49:13,830
regulations to keep that sort of thing

1400
00:49:18,890 --> 00:49:16,080
under control but in actual fact that's

1401
00:49:21,410 --> 00:49:18,900
quite rare far bigger has it is cheap

1402
00:49:24,290 --> 00:49:21,420
rubbishing toys or other products that

1403
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:24,300
can be pulled apart that will break and

1404
00:49:28,550 --> 00:49:25,950
create a small parts that are kickin

1405
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:28,560
ingest and putting crystals on a dummy

1406
00:49:33,320 --> 00:49:31,290
was really never going to be a good and

1407
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:33,330
and I think Chris mentioned that they're

1408
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:34,650
banned in australia but you can still

1409
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:36,090
get them on the internet well it's the

1410
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:37,500
beauty of the internet isn't it you know

1411
00:49:42,020 --> 00:49:39,930
what we bought some online from America

1412
00:49:45,250 --> 00:49:42,030
most of those websites are now saying

1413
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:45,260
for novelty use only only for decoration

1414
00:49:50,180 --> 00:49:48,930
all that sort of stuff but well yeah

1415
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,190
that's all well and good but if

1416
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:53,280
someone's buying a dummy and it's got

1417
00:49:57,230 --> 00:49:54,810
all this wonderful bling on it they want

1418
00:49:58,640 --> 00:49:57,240
to show off their beautiful new baby bet

1419
00:50:00,500 --> 00:49:58,650
your bottom dollar someone's going to

1420
00:50:02,390 --> 00:50:00,510
put them in the kids now yeah it's great

1421
00:50:03,950 --> 00:50:02,400
to talk them down here and that's you

1422
00:50:05,950 --> 00:50:03,960
know shut down some of the industry here

1423
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:05,960
and as great as some awareness as well

1424
00:50:10,340 --> 00:50:08,310
so I think parents are probably a bit

1425
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:10,350
more aware and they might have been yeah

1426
00:50:14,180 --> 00:50:11,850
that you shouldn't do that sort of stuff

1427
00:50:16,370 --> 00:50:14,190
but unfortunately you can still get them

1428
00:50:18,620 --> 00:50:16,380
and you know their parents just need to

1429
00:50:20,540 --> 00:50:18,630
be smart about this stuff you know don't

1430
00:50:23,660 --> 00:50:20,550
buy things that you know you keep kid

1431
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:23,670
might be able to pull apart only buy

1432
00:50:27,050 --> 00:50:25,170
things that make you know australian

1433
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:27,060
standards and Australian regulations as

1434
00:50:30,710 --> 00:50:29,610
far as well just finally Chris there was

1435
00:50:32,570 --> 00:50:30,720
one thing that really caught my

1436
00:50:35,180 --> 00:50:32,580
attention today and that was the the

1437
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:35,190
magical quail eggs oh but apparently can

1438
00:50:40,850 --> 00:50:37,770
cure cancer can remove radio nucleotides

1439
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:40,860
and from your body can improve my own

1440
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:43,050
potency oh I'm sorry of course well I

1441
00:50:46,010 --> 00:50:44,520
actually had one of the quail eggs

1442
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:46,020
because you guys actually cooked some up

1443
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:47,130
and brought them out a little bits of

1444
00:50:51,830 --> 00:50:49,530
toast so I think I don't know do I look

1445
00:50:54,970 --> 00:50:51,840
younger yet well you're positively

1446
00:50:57,830 --> 00:50:54,980
glowing it's clearly now look I mean

1447
00:51:00,020 --> 00:50:57,840
quails a very cute birds as you saw we

1448
00:51:00,859 --> 00:51:00,030
have yeah we have some here yeah break

1449
00:51:02,630 --> 00:51:00,869
you

1450
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:02,640
and that that's great and quail eggs are

1451
00:51:08,180 --> 00:51:04,650
obviously delicious and eggs are good

1452
00:51:10,999 --> 00:51:08,190
for you you know in in moderation quail

1453
00:51:13,009 --> 00:51:11,009
excited aren't an exception there but to

1454
00:51:15,769 --> 00:51:13,019
make sort of ludicrous claims like you

1455
00:51:17,539 --> 00:51:15,779
know improves male potency and and all

1456
00:51:19,339 --> 00:51:17,549
the other sort of claims that they was

1457
00:51:20,989 --> 00:51:19,349
from their website well they're

1458
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:20,999
basically again claiming it's a medicine

1459
00:51:25,940 --> 00:51:23,490
yeah and there's something no absolutely

1460
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:25,950
no solid research to prove any of those

1461
00:51:30,349 --> 00:51:27,359
well hang on wasn't there something in

1462
00:51:33,579 --> 00:51:30,359
the Indian time other nigerian tribune

1463
00:51:35,989 --> 00:51:33,589
right the nigerian tribune did publish

1464
00:51:38,329 --> 00:51:35,999
an article claiming that they improved

1465
00:51:39,890 --> 00:51:38,339
male potency among other effects i think

1466
00:51:41,930 --> 00:51:39,900
the thing there was a claiming to cure

1467
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:41,940
cancer somewheres curing cancer that was

1468
00:51:47,359 --> 00:51:43,890
it yeah look I mean we don't normally

1469
00:51:50,059 --> 00:51:47,369
take the nigerian tribune esser quality

1470
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:50,069
source material really I'm surprised to

1471
00:51:52,819 --> 00:51:51,210
hear that you know with all due respect

1472
00:51:56,329 --> 00:51:52,829
to the hard-working journals in a

1473
00:51:58,940 --> 00:51:56,339
nigerian tribune so yeah look eat the

1474
00:52:01,220 --> 00:51:58,950
eggs because they're tasty i can vouch

1475
00:52:02,989 --> 00:52:01,230
for that they were protein and and all

1476
00:52:05,329 --> 00:52:02,999
the other thing two decks are good for

1477
00:52:07,609 --> 00:52:05,339
but you know don't fool yourself that

1478
00:52:08,930 --> 00:52:07,619
you're going to you know improves use of

1479
00:52:11,420 --> 00:52:08,940
your health in all those other respects

1480
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:11,430
at they claim yeah well thanks Chris for

1481
00:52:15,589 --> 00:52:13,410
joining us I've just been given a fresh

1482
00:52:18,049 --> 00:52:15,599
shiny new copy of the brand new choice

1483
00:52:20,599 --> 00:52:18,059
magazine which has got all the Shan keys

1484
00:52:22,279 --> 00:52:20,609
from 2011 and I guess they'll be stuff

1485
00:52:23,870 --> 00:52:22,289
on the website pretty soon yes that's

1486
00:52:25,579 --> 00:52:23,880
right should be updated on all right and

1487
00:52:27,470 --> 00:52:25,589
people in Australia you would have seen

1488
00:52:28,910 --> 00:52:27,480
on the news a couple of days ago so

1489
00:52:30,769 --> 00:52:28,920
sorry we're recording this it won't go

1490
00:52:33,140 --> 00:52:30,779
out for a couple of days but I'm thanks

1491
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:33,150
for for doing the stuff today Chris and

1492
00:52:36,529 --> 00:52:34,710
you were by the way it's one of the

1493
00:52:38,059 --> 00:52:36,539
models I didn't mention that's correct

1494
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:38,069
yes so you're wearing your official

1495
00:52:41,839 --> 00:52:40,380
choice lab coat and you kind of came out

1496
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:41,849
and wheeled out the door for the

1497
00:52:45,940 --> 00:52:44,570
insurance yes we were the quails and

1498
00:52:47,530 --> 00:52:45,950
and all that sort of stuff so it's a bit

1499
00:52:49,780 --> 00:52:47,540
of good fun for a lot of choice people

1500
00:52:51,940 --> 00:52:49,790
to come out and be part of today and you

1501
00:52:53,830 --> 00:52:51,950
know there is a fun element of course it

1502
00:52:55,510 --> 00:52:53,840
is that serious message underlying it

1503
00:52:57,550 --> 00:52:55,520
all which is there's a lot of shonky

1504
00:52:59,710 --> 00:52:57,560
stuff out there and you know people need

1505
00:53:01,570 --> 00:52:59,720
to be aware and regulators need to crack

1506
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:01,580
down on some of these people absolutely

1507
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:03,530
well thanks for joining us today Chris

1508
00:53:12,220 --> 00:53:10,130
okay thanks very much dr. Rachel Dunlop

1509
00:53:14,170 --> 00:53:12,230
is one of Australia's foremost media

1510
00:53:17,260 --> 00:53:14,180
commentators in matters concerning

1511
00:53:19,900 --> 00:53:17,270
so-called alternative medicine she has

1512
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:19,910
appeared on national radio and national

1513
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:22,490
television dr. AG is available for

1514
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:25,450
interviews and you can contact her at

1515
00:53:48,980 --> 00:53:47,360
thank you for listening to the skeptics

1516
00:53:52,070 --> 00:53:48,990
are now on my way back from the

1517
00:53:55,490 --> 00:53:52,080
conspiracy ah panel which was really

1518
00:53:58,490 --> 00:53:55,500
good i bumped into Julia Lavarnway hello

1519
00:54:00,560 --> 00:53:58,500
hi how you doing I'm fine now you're

1520
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,570
you've got a very important position

1521
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:02,640
here well with a committee haven't you

1522
00:54:08,060 --> 00:54:06,330
I'd like to think so I'm the managing

1523
00:54:10,460 --> 00:54:08,070
editor of The Skeptical Inquirer our

1524
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:10,470
flagship publication that's that's quite

1525
00:54:16,970 --> 00:54:13,640
a title that's quite a title I mean wow

1526
00:54:20,750 --> 00:54:16,980
and what does that involve um I'm kind

1527
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:20,760
of the liaison between our senior editor

1528
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:23,130
Ken Frazier who actually decides

1529
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:24,930
everything that goes in the magazine and

1530
00:54:32,150 --> 00:54:29,010
the author of each article so when I

1531
00:54:36,830 --> 00:54:32,160
write my award-winning expose on

1532
00:54:39,050 --> 00:54:36,840
something or other I i write to you well

1533
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:39,060
you you would send it to Ken and he

1534
00:54:42,650 --> 00:54:40,680
would say whether he wanted it for the

1535
00:54:45,380 --> 00:54:42,660
magazine or not and if he said that he

1536
00:54:48,410 --> 00:54:45,390
did which obviously he he would want to

1537
00:54:51,350 --> 00:54:48,420
publish those wrote good but if he said

1538
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:51,360
that he did then he would send it to me

1539
00:54:57,890 --> 00:54:55,290
for copy editing and proofreading along

1540
00:55:01,430 --> 00:54:57,900
with other members of our staff who are

1541
00:55:04,550 --> 00:55:01,440
support in that department and we would

1542
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:04,560
make sure that it gets ready for you to

1543
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:06,170
take a look at and give final approval

1544
00:55:12,650 --> 00:55:09,390
and if you have any changes I make sure

1545
00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:12,660
that those are done to your liking well

1546
00:55:18,290 --> 00:55:16,260
of course just not so long ago I wrote a

1547
00:55:20,780 --> 00:55:18,300
little piece about pal balance you sure

1548
00:55:22,610 --> 00:55:20,790
did which appeared in that was it the

1549
00:55:24,350 --> 00:55:22,620
very last issue or the one before I

1550
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:24,360
can't remember of The Skeptical Inquirer

1551
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:28,650
um I believe it was in July August 2011

1552
00:55:33,830 --> 00:55:30,570
what you might not want to quote me on

1553
00:55:36,140 --> 00:55:33,840
that very recently very very within the

1554
00:55:39,020 --> 00:55:36,150
past three issues it was yeah so I wrote

1555
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:39,030
my my article for you and it was a one

1556
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:41,490
or two back and forth to suggest a

1557
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:42,960
change here and there or a quick edit

1558
00:55:48,620 --> 00:55:45,210
yeah and now that was it and that was it

1559
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:48,630
it was so EP no salir happy with it I

1560
00:55:53,060 --> 00:55:50,810
love you

1561
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:53,070
despite my appalling writing it still

1562
00:55:59,270 --> 00:55:57,450
made made it through magazine so that's

1563
00:56:00,710 --> 00:55:59,280
that's really great you must get it must

1564
00:56:02,570 --> 00:56:00,720
be a really interesting job you must get

1565
00:56:04,910 --> 00:56:02,580
stations and all sorts of things to read

1566
00:56:08,810 --> 00:56:04,920
yes I I really love it what I love about

1567
00:56:10,940 --> 00:56:08,820
our magazine is the topics are so varied

1568
00:56:13,070 --> 00:56:10,950
I get to read about something different

1569
00:56:15,140 --> 00:56:13,080
every single day one day I'll be reading

1570
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:15,150
about UFOs one day I'll be reading about

1571
00:56:23,450 --> 00:56:18,290
homeopathy one day I'll be reading about

1572
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:23,460
you know Lucy Lucy being discovered and

1573
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:26,010
the controversy surrounding that so it's

1574
00:56:33,440 --> 00:56:30,330
very varied and I just really love my

1575
00:56:35,330 --> 00:56:33,450
job where are you based um we're based

1576
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:35,340
our headquarters are in Amherst New York

1577
00:56:40,340 --> 00:56:36,810
which is actually right outside of

1578
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:40,350
Buffalo Buffalo's in New York Buffalo is

1579
00:56:44,030 --> 00:56:41,970
in New in New York State right in New

1580
00:56:45,860 --> 00:56:44,040
York's I heard buffalo has more cloudy

1581
00:56:49,210 --> 00:56:45,870
days than any other city in America I'm

1582
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:49,220
not sure that's true it it might be true

1583
00:56:57,290 --> 00:56:54,930
I think Seattle is known for their rain

1584
00:56:59,270 --> 00:56:57,300
and cloudy days but we do get some nice

1585
00:57:01,880 --> 00:56:59,280
days and because it's so cloudy a lot of

1586
00:57:03,590 --> 00:57:01,890
the time we really enjoy them I bet you

1587
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:03,600
do and in that part of the country where

1588
00:57:07,730 --> 00:57:05,850
you're in in the wintertime it's foots

1589
00:57:10,970 --> 00:57:07,740
of feet of snow and all that stuff

1590
00:57:13,460 --> 00:57:10,980
snowmen and um sometimes we certainly

1591
00:57:16,190 --> 00:57:13,470
have had our fair share of blizzards

1592
00:57:19,430 --> 00:57:16,200
really yes oh that sounds like fun no it

1593
00:57:20,930 --> 00:57:19,440
doesn't because if it does speaking from

1594
00:57:24,260 --> 00:57:20,940
someone from Sydney a blizzard sounds

1595
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:24,270
like a lot of him so one day one day I

1596
00:57:28,820 --> 00:57:27,210
will I must get up to that part of the

1597
00:57:32,690 --> 00:57:28,830
world I mean I've made it this far I

1598
00:57:34,490 --> 00:57:32,700
Venice far east as Atlanta for dragoncon

1599
00:57:36,620 --> 00:57:34,500
of course Atlanta Georgia that's fairly

1600
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:36,630
far east that's pretty far east but not

1601
00:57:42,380 --> 00:57:38,970
very fun not very far no so the

1602
00:57:44,450 --> 00:57:42,390
Northeast is where I should set my

1603
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:44,460
sights yes you should visit our

1604
00:57:48,380 --> 00:57:45,960
headquarters we'd love to have you there

1605
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:48,390
love to have you given talk that would

1606
00:57:52,760 --> 00:57:50,250
be cool I would really love to do that

1607
00:57:55,550 --> 00:57:52,770
would be fantastic yeah yeah ok there's

1608
00:57:58,820 --> 00:57:55,560
my goal this lets my go off to town I

1609
00:58:00,980 --> 00:57:58,830
think well maybe maybe after ten maybe

1610
00:58:02,370 --> 00:58:00,990
before maybe after whenever you'd like

1611
00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:02,380
to come we'd love to have you

1612
00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:05,050
thank you well see how nice it is here

1613
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:07,450
folks had this wonderful committee for

1614
00:58:12,450 --> 00:58:09,520
skeptical inquiry convention which is

1615
00:58:14,340 --> 00:58:12,460
even a mouthful more interviews from

1616
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:14,350
this convention coming up over the next

1617
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:16,450
few weeks and indeed more interviews

1618
00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:18,490
from skippy camp coming up over the next

1619
00:58:22,650 --> 00:58:20,050
few weeks so it'll be a bit of a mixed

1620
00:58:25,740 --> 00:58:22,660
bag from here anyen will try to sneak in

1621
00:58:27,710 --> 00:58:25,750
a think tank before long when we can and

1622
00:58:30,030 --> 00:58:27,720
I've just you know what I've just

1623
00:58:32,130 --> 00:58:30,040
looking over to the tables over there

1624
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:32,140
there's tables of t-shirts and books for

1625
00:58:37,950 --> 00:58:34,570
sale and it's a little UFO hovering

1626
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:37,960
above the yes the cups that you can make

1627
00:58:43,350 --> 00:58:41,410
your own UFOs we have a kit it's really

1628
00:58:45,780 --> 00:58:43,360
strange because we're how we're looking

1629
00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:45,790
at it now it really is just floating

1630
00:58:50,730 --> 00:58:48,910
there it appears to be float into it is

1631
00:58:54,930 --> 00:58:50,740
i'm a believer what do your skeptical

1632
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:54,940
senses tell you Richard well right now

1633
00:58:58,950 --> 00:58:57,520
my senses are telling me that's floating

1634
00:59:01,740 --> 00:58:58,960
in the air with no visible means of

1635
00:59:03,810 --> 00:59:01,750
support but ha can you trust your senses

1636
00:59:06,930 --> 00:59:03,820
Richard of course I can trust my senses

1637
00:59:08,640 --> 00:59:06,940
are you crazy I might have to fight I

1638
00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:08,650
might have to buy myself a little UFO

1639
00:59:11,790 --> 00:59:10,240
kid I bought one of the t-shirts over

1640
00:59:13,350 --> 00:59:11,800
there with the alien on it with the

1641
00:59:15,690 --> 00:59:13,360
skeptical pointing to the skeptical

1642
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:15,700
Inquirer there's a popular one that's a

1643
00:59:21,060 --> 00:59:19,210
great t-shirt oh well anyway we better

1644
00:59:22,890 --> 00:59:21,070
wrap up the show sir listeners can get

1645
00:59:25,410 --> 00:59:22,900
off the treadmill or stop driving around

1646
00:59:27,500 --> 00:59:25,420
the block and finally get to sleep you

1647
00:59:29,610 --> 00:59:27,510
know what or finish cooking the dinner

1648
00:59:31,290 --> 00:59:29,620
you don't want to keep the dinner from

1649
00:59:34,560 --> 00:59:31,300
the children well thank you for having a

1650
00:59:38,540 --> 00:59:34,570
little chat with me and until next week

1651
00:59:43,530 --> 00:59:38,550
from beautiful beautiful and interesting

1652
00:59:46,470 --> 00:59:43,540
new thing you where we were she's she's

1653
00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:46,480
whispering to me New Orleans it's not

1654
00:59:50,580 --> 00:59:48,610
Atlanta it we're not it was not an

1655
00:59:52,740 --> 00:59:50,590
Atlanta from beautiful new orleans

1656
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:52,750
louisiana so you even got the state

1657
00:59:57,630 --> 00:59:54,490
right he's got the state right even

1658
01:00:01,590 --> 00:59:57,640
thank you this is richard sona's signing

1659
01:00:09,010 --> 01:00:04,000
you've been listening to the skeptic

1660
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:09,020
zone visit our website at www skeptics